DS wants to do sixth form "for the experience" and doesn't even need a levels.

[PrinceCharming80]

DS wants to end up in the police. He's a smart lad. There's a public services course at the local college that I thinks for things like the police but he says it does focus a lot on the army and that he just really doesn't want to do it he wants to go to a local sixth form joined to a school, he is smart but didn't receive any As in GCSEs (I'm not fussed, I'm very proud of his grades) and wants to do a levels, for the heck of it (his words) he says he wants to meet new friends and just learn a bit more before he actually goes down that whole chosen careers route as he would just like to build his confidence up and learn more about life. I'm just worried that he is going to find them too tough but then get a bit too attached to this experience and then spend 3 years getting a levels he doesn't need IYSWIM? When maybe he could be doing public services or something a bit more related to his chosen career.

I'm just not sure how I feel about this. I saw 2 threads on here recently about a levels and I thought they were helpful but none were exactly to my son's experience, so wanted to see what people's thoughts were! Thank you

He sounds sensible.

If he wants to go to Hendon he'll have to spend 2 years studying and passing exams there. So let him do the A levels. It will be good practice. Too many recruits fail as it is. They had to lower the exam standard for that reason.

My DCs' schools have been advised that generally, if they do the same amount of work for a levels as they did for the GCSEs then a B grade will on average transfer to a D. (Obviously there are many exceptions - this was just general advice given!)

But at A level an E and above is considered a pass, with many students at DS's above average comprehensive dropping out at the end of lower sixth having not met a requirement of 3 D grades to go into upper sixth.

I'm sure he is capable of them, he will probably have to work harder than he did at GCSE, but if he thinks he can do them and wars to do them then there is no reason for him not to. A lot of people only do the first year and then transfer to college courses, so it wouldn't be a problem if he decided that was more suited to him.

I think you may as well let him go for it - it does give him more of a variety of choice for the future.

He shouldn't be limiting himself at 16, what if he changes his mind in 2 years? A btec public services will be useless, A levels will open a world of options.

I confess to being flumoxxed by the number of threads suggesting DC ought to change their course (or even move school) due to getting average or slightly snap be average results at GCSE. Is this a higher education fees thing? Because back when I was doing this, anyone who wanted to go down there degree route was supported unless utterly deluded and borderline candidates encouraged to consider other options as a backup.

Hell I was made for exams and I recognise many people are it.

It's highly unlikely he will get into the police at 18, my DS dad is a detective sergeant (Police Scotland) currently but he didn't join the police until he was almost 25. He's 31 now and he said even people who were cadets and specials are struggling to get accepted. A Levels will only help set him above other people.

There's a reason Police Studies is a growth industry in universities, and it's not because they can recruit massively from the existing pool - I am only familiar with the recruitment processes in two areas, so this absolutely isn't gospel (unless, say, you're in TVP area ;-) ) but even people who have been Specials don't have an automatic chance: nor do people who are doing an degree and also are Specials. It's a buyers market because police recruitment is getting lower by the year - so everything your son does to set him apart and improve his profile is going to give him an advantage if that's the route he decides to follow.

You seem very negative about his ability. Since when did kids need grade As to do A levels, is this a new thing?

By doing the public services Btec he will be seriously limiting his future career choices.

Why do you think a Public Services BTEC is better than A Levels OP?

She doesn't. She just thinks it will be easier for him.

Fair enough.

However even if she thinks a BTEC is a better route for him than A Levels, why would she insist on a BTEC that is for the most part completely useless and not respected?

I did a Public Services BTEC btw.

So when I say it's a pointless course and not respected I am speaking from my own personal experience.

I know quite a few people on my course wanted to be police officers and quite a few wanted to join the armed forces.

As it stands however, none of them have become police officers or got a job in any uniformed public service. They're all still working in retail, hospitality, call centres and the like. I now work in administration.

We finished the course six years ago.

Your DS sounds smart Prince.

I would encourage him to do A Levels. They will open a lot more doors for him.

I'd echo the views of the majority in here. Also, my GCSEs were good if unspectacular, but I got straight A's at a-level, scoring 100% on many of my finals. I don't think I worked any harder, but it was a different learning environment and suited me better.

my brother did a levels (with no A gcse grades, and got BCC at A level!) and a degree (2:2) and is now a police officer.

To be honest, he's more likely to do well at the thing he's enthusiastic about, whatever that is.

I'd encourage him in his plans.

Whether he does A levels or doesn't might not matter too much to the police (I have no experience or knowledge of that career) but it would be massively damaging to his career to sign up for studying at A-level and then slack off the work "because it's optional" and get bad grades.

When I am looking at a job application and see that they have A-levels in History, French and Chemistry it is completely irrelevant and of no use to me that they might be able to write a well-structured essay on the causes of the 100 years war, or translate a bit of Voltaire, or do an accurate volumetric titration of carboxylic acid. The grades - especially compared to gcse grades, tell me about the capacity of someone to work, concentrate and apply themselves to an achievement.

Mix of Bs and Cs at GCSE then ABB at A-level = I know they can buckle down and work hard when needed and has clearly been very dedicated over those 2 years.

Mix of Bs and Cs at GCSE then Ds, Es and fewer than 3 subjects at A-level on the other hand could (unless there are other extenuating circs eg being a carer) indicate someone who chose partying over work and has stopped bothering now they feel they are too old to be chivvied into doing their homework by a parent.

So my advice is - if he does A-levels it should only be wholeheartedly and with a resolution to do his best to excel. Starting the courses feeling that it is OK to fail could be really damaging.

As a teacher I find it pretty depressing that children who achieve a B at GCSE are bring referred to as not academically minded and their entire educational future is being written off.
Specialisation from 10 subjects down to 3 will help.
Increased maturity will help.
Bloody hard work will help.
Getting A levels doesn't mean getting 3 As and going to Oxbridge. I don't agree with going to uni for 27k worth of the craic but if he can translate those Bs and Cs into Bs and Cs he will have the option of going to a decent uni if for some crazy reason the path he has mapped out for himself at sixteen doesn't go to plan!
It will also increase chances of getting and apprenticeship, job etc.

Pls support him in his desire to study A-Levels. They will open many more doors. Although he isn't considering uni now, it might be that further down the line, even as a mature student or part time student he wants to study for a degree. Bs and Cs plus hard work and realistic expectations (ie 5 hours outside of lessons per subject) are enough. One of my B grade GCSE students just came out with a C overall at A Level, and actually at AS he'd come out with a high B. He's off to a very decent uni to study computer science.

Give him a chance, working life is LONG. Help him prep for a wider range of eventualities.

I have heard of a few kids doing the public services BTEC, most of them got

The Public Services BETC is not held in high regard, is focused on armed forces and tends to be a holding pen for students who can't do A Levels but can't be bothered to do anything else. It's not full of people who want to go to the Army or Police and most organisations like that don't really view it as a beneficial qualification to have. I would not be encouraging it.

Bs and Cs are fine for sixth form, and the police are trying to become a more educated service so some forces already ask for Level 3 (A Levels) and I predict in the future more will up their entry requirements and some start to ask for degrees.

Let him pick four A Levels that he thinks he will like and do well in. Doesn't have to be linked to the Police at all. Chances are he'll get Cs and Ds which will more than qualify him for Police entry.

He should be doing a course based on what career he wants. Not a course based on a back up plan.

Not at age 16, it would be stupid to start going down a very narrow career-based route at that age - particularly in relation to something like the police which is known to be difficult to get into anyway. The public services qualification will hold very little weight for other careers, and equally holds little weight for the police, so it would essentially be two years wasted.

I would let him go for the a levels op, and encourage your ds to try hard. It sounds like you are aware of the options available to your son if at AS level things are not going well.

Ds is one year ahead of you and about to start BTec level 3 course (equivalent of 3 a levels if course passed at merit level). Ds did well in his GCSE 5 bs, 2 cs and really struggle with a levels. The school eventually advised that below a d grade at AS would mean they would not like ds to go up to upper six.

Ds became seriously depressed and anxious and 3 of the pupils in his classes (science) left after terrible mock results, but we encouraged him to carry on and he dropped a subject. The results are 2 Es and Ds will be starting his BTec next week.

I am glad Ds tried because that was what he wanted but things have change so much compared to how it was in my day (2 Es lead to a degree and a great career for me). We now know from a class of 16 children in Ds a levels that 5 have now left since the start of the year. After the mock results I supported Ds to look at other options and to have a back up plan and this is when we found the btec courses.

This thread makes for depressing reading as the mindset is so rigid that a levels and a degree are the only way to go. What if despite being bright a levels are not for you? Do we just write off all these young people?

Gonzo what would be a better option if you can't do a levels? Also a btec level 3 are the equivilant of a levels three qualification.

DS2 got the bare minimum GCSEs - not because he's lazy or stupid, he's averagely gright but goes into panic mode under pressure. He wasn't ready to leave school at 16 and he has many other good qualities, so school said they were very happy for him to stay and try A levels. He came away with three rubbish grades, more mature, confident and ready to face the world.

Why shouldn't kids stay at school even if their results aren't going to be anything special. Education isn't all about exam grades ffs.