Holiday photos on Facebook - you are NOT going to get burgled

[TaterTots]

I've seen a couple of FB-related threads on here lately where the topic of holiday photos has come up. There have been several posts along the lines of 'why would you post holiday pics, you're letting the world know your house is empty, it's practically an invitation to burglars' etc.

Is it just me or is this a) ridiculously paranoid and b) blatantly not true for many reasons?

1. It's very easy to make your profile visible to friends only, which most people do. If you're worried someone on your friends list might take the opportunity to burgle you, why the hell are they on your friends list?

2. Even if you do have an open profile, surely you'd have to put your address on it as well to be at any risk? Surely no one is that daft?

3. Do thieves really trawl FB in the desperate hope of finding an open profile complete with full address, the owner of which conveniently happens to be on holiday? Wouldn't it be a better idea to watch actual houses in the area for signs of emptiness?

4. Who the hell has an FB friends list full of potential thieves?!

I know 1and 4 are essentially the same point, but I feel it's so salient that it's worth repeating.

Where do you draw the line?
Not get a cab to the airport because the driver will then know the house is empty?
Not pre-book airport parking in case someone in the parking company tips off the burglars?

If I was a career burglar looking for info on empty homes while people are on holiday, it would be a more productive use of time to befriend someone at a travel agency than trawl Facebook looking for open profiles

I post holiday photos and tag locations when away and most of my family are burglars. I figure that if they were going to rob me they would have done it by now.

1) I don't think cloning people has been done.
Account cloning is often done. I have several friends who have had their account cloned.

The fact that lots of people have been burgled when they haven't posted anything on FB is completely irrelevant. Burglary happened before FB and will continue to happen. Burglars do drive round looking for properties that look unoccupied. Most people take steps to make their house look occupied when they are away. Not advertising the fact that you are on holiday is just another sensible precaution that will reduce the risk of your house being targetted.

Will posting your holiday photos on FB guarantee you will get burgled? No of course not, but it will increase the risk of it happening like leaving a window open would. Both can result in your insurance company not paying out.

But if any of you want to continue doing it then please go ahead. The more you increase your risk of being targetted, the more you reduce my risk.

There is no right or wrong here, it's down to personal preference however, the fact that it can invalidate your house insurance suggests it's not the best idea to do it

Account cloning is often done

Yes, Ive had my credit card cloned. That's not what you said though. Sorry, I clearly should have put "lighthearted" after what I thought was clearly a joke.

Will posting your holiday photos on FB guarantee you will get burgled? No of course not, but it will increase the risk of it happening

By a tiny tiny amount. Close to negligible if you have any kind of sensible privacy settings. It isnothinglike leaving a window open at all. The scenario you described about the burglar gaining access to your friends FB account, finding out you are away and your precise address is probably as likely as being abducted by aliens.

The more you increase your risk of being targetted, the more you reduce my risk.

Nonsense.

the fact that it can invalidate your house insurance suggests it's not the best idea to do it

Is this a fact though?

Meh. I have nothing worth pinching anyway. They'd probably take one look, and say "Fuck me, Steve..have you seen the state of this place? I'll leave them a tenner, the poor sods."

According to press reports it's true, though apparently there haven't yet been any cases of non-payout for this reason in the UK. In the US, it's already happening; they use a computer program to scan social media accounts.

www.policyexpert.co.uk/insurance-blog/house-home/how-posting-updates-on-social-media-could-ruin-your-home-cover/

It's because you can be deemed not to have taken "reasonable care".

I think they would struggle to make it stand up in court unless they also won't pay out if have given your full address to the accommodation you are staying at or to the cab that takes you to the airport, or if you have left no car on the drive or your bins haven't been taken in or out out the next week... Etc etc. All at far more likely than someone seeing it on FB.

I think I have 13 FB friends. 6 are family, 3 are friends from the school run, 4 are old friends. No one but them can see what I post.

Well, a friend of mine who lived abroad put on Facebook that he was coming home for a long weekend and when he got back, his place had been emptied. No sympathy or compensation were forthcoming from his insurers. They said he had failed to take the necessary precautions to protect his belongings

Also not sure if it's been mentioned, but unless you switched off the location services on your photos the exact location of your photo appears on your posts, you can click on the little location icon and get a map straight to the place the photo was taken.

Unfortunately tater it isn't ridiculously paranoid.

A friend of mine was burgled by a relative who she wasn't in enough contact with to know he had a really bad cocaine habit, or enough to tell him she was going on holiday. Her FB posts advertised the fact she was "At Heathrow looking forward to a week in X" and he burgled her house.

A work colleague also is certain that someone (she isn't sure who) burgled her when she posted stuff on FB about being away. It just seems a bit of a risk really.

As anyone who has been burgled will tell you, it's not about the "stuff" you lose, it's your sense of being safe and secure at home that is gone forever, and it's a very high price to pay imo.

I can't help thinking it's a nonsense.

And how can insurance companies actually know if you've posted photos on fb whilst you're away anyway? How can they prove that? And if you have it doesn't take a second to delete the photos anyway.

I post photos whilst I'm away. I'm reasonably confident the house is secured and would deter a burglar so I don't worry about it too much.

Where do you draw the line?
Not get a cab to the airport because the driver will then know the house is empty?

I suspect you're being facetious SpareChange, but my uncle actually genuinely worries about this. He flipped at my aunt once because she booked a cab to pick them up from their house. He said 'Why didn't you tell them to come around the corner? Now they'll know we're out!'

I live in a smallish village that has an extremely low crime rate. One of our neighbours was burgled last year and I'm convinced it's because of her daughter posting a picture of Croyde beach on Instagram and Facebook.

I'm not close friends with these neighbours but apparently she had a diamond ring worth about £10K. Her husband's South African and every time he goes back to South Africa he brings her back a diamond. Recently she had them all made into a ring. I didn't know anything about this ring but apparently it's common knowledge within the village.

The only thing stolen from their house was the diamond ring. It's the only burglary there's been in our village for about 5 years. So, with my Miss Marple head on, I'd say that the burglar had to be someone who knew them. It doesn't mean that the burglar was necessarily one of their friends. One of their friends may have told other friends about the ring. Someone from the village may have heard it discussed in the pub and then noticed the picture of the beach and thought they'd take the opportunity. Perhaps it's nothing to do with social media and just someone in the pub overhearing they'd gone away. Who knows.

I'd certainly agree that a lot of burglaries are probably carried out by people who know you. My parents have only been burgled once - by my brother who had a drug problem they didn't know about. My Mum still doesn't know it was him that did it.

My Mum also had £30 taken from her purse inside the house once - that was my brother's friend (son of the local vicar, not that that's relevant) who spent the money on Iron Maiden albums.

Neither of these incidents were anything to do with social media but they were opportunistic thefts. You just don't know who out there may seize the opportunity so why advertise the fact you're away? You can always share the pictures when you get home.

I think I have 13 FB friends. 6 are family, 3 are friends from the school run, 4 are old friends. No one but them can see what I post
My neighbour who only joined FB to see what her family are up to only has four friends, one of them is her niece.

The other day my neighbour posted a picture of herself on FB of herself on holiday, her niece who I am friends with commented on it and then it appeared on my FB feed (and that of all the niece's friends).

She is always telling me how secure her FB is because she set it up to be private and she only has 4 friends but I think she will be in for a shock.

I suspect you're being facetious SpareChange, but my uncle actually genuinely worries about this. He flipped at my aunt once because she booked a cab to pick them up from their house. He said 'Why didn't you tell them to come around the corner? Now they'll know we're out!'

So did my Mum! She had a right old hissy fit at my Dad for yelling "Taxis here!" When they were going away. "Oh nice one dipstick! Just let all the neighbours we are going to be away.

Despite both of them telling everyone they worked with that they were going away therefore their house will be empty.

I think I have 13 FB friends. 6 are family, 3 are friends from the school run, 4 are old friends. No one but them can see what I post.
This is where people really don't understand privacy settings.
You have set your account up so that only 13 people can see your wall. That does not mean that only those 13 people can actually see your wall.
You don't know how many other people have access to those 13 friends' accounts.
If even 1 of those friends has poor security, has their account hacked or cloned, leaves their account logged in in multiple locations, or in a location where other people can access it - your wall could be visible to numerous other people. The more friends you have, the greater the risk.

I can see all of my DH's freinds' walls, I can see my children's friends' walls. How well do you know all of your friends of friends?

And it's about what is reasonable. If the insurance company don't think you have taken reasonable steps to keep your property safe, they won't pay out. It's reasonable to call a cab or give your address to book the holiday, it's not reasonable to advertise the fact you are away on social media. It's in the terms that you have agreed to so it's unlikely you will win in court, but even if you did, your house has still been burgled and an insurance payout never really compensates for the effect that has on you.

Personally, I would rather reduce the risks in the first place, rather than advertise unnecessarily that I was away.
Criminals love the internet because people give away so much information without them having to leave their house and possibly look suspicious driving up and down the same road a few times.

And it's about what is reasonable. If the insurance company don't think you have taken reasonable steps to keep your property safe, they won't pay out. It's reasonable to call a cab or give your address to book the holiday, it's not reasonable to advertise the fact you are away on social media. It's in the terms that you have agreed to so it's unlikely you will win in court, but even if you did, your house has still been burgled and an insurance payout never really compensates for the effect that has on you.

I agree with that but how would an insurance company actually know that you've posted on social media that you've been away? Obviously you're not going to admit to it and short of demanding to actually check your fb/insta etc I don't see how they can. Photos/statuses can be deleted in a matter of seconds.

Tater,

I'm not being facetious! I think it is a much, much higher security risk to let the local dodgy mini cab firm know your house is empty than it is to let your friends know.

Anyway, I've just had lunch with BIL who is an insurance underwriter.
I asked him whether the social media invalidating your insurance thing is possible and he laughed his head off

He said that even in the world of insurance companies chancing it to knock back claims, there isn't a hope that they would refuse a claim based on someone posting that they are on holiday. It isn't any sort of violation of any small print, and no insurance company would have the nerve to knock it back solely on that basis.
He said if you hire an un-vetted house sitter to look after your home while you are on holiday, and they rob you, then they might reject it. But there is no obligation to keep your holiday plans a secret from your friends, either verbally or by social media.

He said how many people have an 'out of office' message at work - that's advertising to anyone who randomly emails you then knows you're out of th country...