To think the ancient Egyptians were black

[JonathanDunn]

The last thread was removed because of an inflammatory title. So I changed the title of this thread.

But I don't the media credits African people, or white actors playing Egyptians.

You don't need to look to West Africans to feel good about being black either, though, surely (I think: I'm not black, so my suspicions aren't very important, I know).

There's loads of black history all over the place that is interesting.

The constant drumming of Africans as savages and slaves needs to stop. They kingdoms explorers colonised where organised groups with their own politics that worked for their people.

Just because you have better weapons does not make you a better person or more civilised and more human.

I know of tales of how kingdoms where formed and destroyed. How people migrated in parts of Africa. To the world it's pointless and not taught. To someone like me it's important because I know things that some black people will never know about. The only black history they know about is slavery and racism. It's like Africa never existed pre-slavery when that is not true at all.

I don't blame people who will try and hold on to Egypt when they have had enough of Martin Luther King and black history month.

Nothing to be sorry about! Was just amused at my own daftness.

LRD

You're probably right and I actually apologize because I saw this question and got really mad but that's probably my US based lens.

I only saw a bit of the other thread before it was zapped but it seemed like it coming from a Hotep-ish place and I think I responded how I'd respond on a US based site. This is probably coming from a totally different place when discussed in the UK.

It generally really annoys me because in the conversations I've seen it reflects a "white is right" mentality that prefers even fake non black people to real black people.

Presumably there's a sight more black history than white history.
Getting overly focussed on was Jesus black? Or was Cleopatra black seems a bit celeb style.
There is presumably a lot more to focus on than where Africa met Europe?

A11 - no, I get it, I can completely understand that if you've been listening to something offensive and/or bullshit for ages you get less patient!

I agree about the idea of fake black people being deeply annoying.

quencher

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

African history (which I studied at uni level) is millions of miles away from slaves and savages. And it needs to be taught. But why encourage Egypt? Doesn't this just play into the myth that the REST OF AFRICA is a savage jungle? Why not talk about the kingdoms that existed in what is now Sub-Saharan Africa? Why not talk about modern day Africa (which is not all doom and gloom despite all the patronizing charity adverts).

LRD

No thanks for understanding and you actually are still probably right that I should be more understanding myself! It's just a weirdly annoying topic when you feel like people are desperately doing DNA tests to try and cling to the idea that they are not you! The worst thing in the world is to be me: someone who is 100% West African. They are so thrilled to be 2% Egyptian or 1% Native American or whatever.

Yep, that sounds frustrating!

But the definition of "black" in the US is basically the one drop rule (of melanin). This definition is then "imposed" globally regardless of people's own cultural definitions of blackness. So by this measure, anyone with melanin in their DNA or who looks "black-ish" can be considered "black" if needs be. This includes filipinos, the Spanish, Native Americans, Melanesians etc etc. All their history can be conveniently "claimed" as black history despite modern racial classifications not being relevant and in many cases there being no actual genetic link. Foreigners are then considered to be "ashamed" of their blackness because of their refusal to accept US based race classifications as some sort of universal standard. African Americans can then "claim" most of the accomplishments of the entire world. T

Can you please give examples of when black people in Asia where considered black or even South America pre slavery and black people have taken credit.

I mentioned Egypt because it's the only thing a lot of black children in Europe and America will encounter that is not slavery. The only things they are mostly taught is heliographic, mummies and pyramids. That's all I remember seeing in my sisters book.

They don't even mention that Sudan has more pyramids than Egypt. The only difference is that Egypt has the biggest. I would assume they are not worth exploring from the eyes of those who do so.

I personally do not care for Egypt and who was who when it was built and who run it.

but they are still Americans and retain a fairly limited view of the rest of the world. This means they have the same US tendency to evaluate the world in very black and white simple terms. This is the same mentality that worked really well in Iraq!

Jesus again. Substitute travellers for americans here and see how that works for you and MNHQ.

Ah so this means the BLACK ancient Egyptians were the slave Masters and deserve the same accountability as the white slave masters are being held to. All black people owe all Jewish people compensation for keeping them as slaves for centuries.

Is that the kid of recognition your looking for Raymond?

OR we could just shake our heads and say some people are really really shitty to others based on real dumb biological differences.

Cleopatra was Greek. And apparently dumpy with a big nose.

I thought the red hair theories came from mummies who were found to have red hair (found to be dye it as a result of the mummification process).

I assumed the ancient Egyptians were a mix of whoever had invaded, ruled and conquered .

Or maybe we could just acknowledge that Egyptians were Africans - no matter what the colour of their skin.

On that basis, then surely any African can feel pride in the historical achievements of the Egyptians on the basis they are part of their larger "group". Just like England contributed not a whit to to renaissance art but still feels part of the western european culture that resulted.

At the time Julius Caesar invaded Britain, many Romans didn't believe it existed at all. When they got there the Romans were singularly disappointed with how little of anything - goods/ culture/ whatever there was to plunder and tax. But the UK still feels part of the western european culture that is historically embedded in the Graeco-Roman history and culture and that is dominant in all education systems in the US and UK.

So why the carping about west africans claiming another culture on their continent?

*Ah so this means the BLACK ancient Egyptians were the slave Masters and deserve the same accountability as the white slave masters are being held to. All black people owe all Jewish people compensation for keeping them as slaves for centuries.

Is that the kid of recognition your looking for Raymond?

OR we could just shake our heads and say some people are really really shitty to others based on real dumb biological differences* comments like this makes me want to bang my head to oblivion.

The current slaves descendants are still suffering the effects of slavery. It's not something that probably happened 2-5 years ago or even more. I thought the Jews got compensations from the Europe after the war.

Slave owners where offered compensated for the lose of their livelihood. What did black people get, nothing. Those who were promised land never got it or where retrieved. Those who where left land by their French ancestors where taken back too.

The best compensation black people can ever get is when comments like yours disappear all together with racism.

I thought the red hair theories came from mummies who were found to have red hair (found to be dye it as a result of the mummification process). That is why I asked the question above. I know for a fact there is a tribe in north of Africa that still dyes their hair red. They have done it for centuries.
Nubians also used hair dye. If they did, i can easily see how easy it is that Egyptians would do the same or at some point would have used the henna.

So why the carping about west africans claiming another culture on their continent?

Because Hotepism is damaging to Black Feminism. Specifically American Black Feminism.

It has nothing to do with your sneering cuntiness about England.

Ancient Egypt was absolutely black. There is absolutely no doubt about that when you study the history.

Then the Semitic Hyksos and Greeks (white) came in later dynasties, and created the red look that we see in later dynasties.

There was more than one Cleopatra. The most famous one was mixed race.

And there is no evidence of the enslavement of the Jews in Egypt, except the Bible story (which I do not consider evidence).

Thanks for the link, Ginky

Ancient Egypt was an extremely long country, whose borders changed a LOT, North, East and South. The area of origin of the rulers varied greatly, too, and therefore the colour of their skin. That didn't matter - they were Egyptian. Eventually, of course, Egypt was taken over by the Greeks, then the Romans.
The word Pharaoh is from the word pr, meaning house, as in the palace. The Egyptians didn't use the word - the ruler was nswt bty, amongst other titles. Read something by Aidan Dodson if you really want to learn about Egyptian Pharaohs.

It has nothing to do with your sneering cuntiness about England.

MY sneering cuntiness about England!!! Way to go there with your intellectual arguments.

Apart from your use of the word cuntiness in what was - to me - up until then a reasonable intellectual argument online. Look it up. It is a reasonable historical analysis. Do you really think the Britons were ruling the world, being highly superior all the way into the past.

And also, think about how you felt when I pointed out the historical facts that Britain was nothing much at the time the Romans invaded. What did you feel - diminished, overlooked?

Well maybe Africans feel like that too when they view the normative historical narrative in western Europe and the US.

Roman Britain once has a "Black/North African" Emperor, plus the Romans had solders from all parts of their empire stationed in Britian at one time or another.
Some stayed after retirement or a runner to somewhere and got married to a local woman

I don't feel diminished or overlooked that Britain was nothing much at the time of the Romans.

It is interesting that Britain and America have spent a couple of hundred years identifying with empires from the Ancient World, creating mock versions of their buildings to run our own empires from. We see as ourselves as the cultural inheritors of imperialism and European culture not the genetic descendants of the Romans.

In fact many of the actual descendants of the Ancient Med world are considered Hispanic and not properly 'white' in the United States.

African American people wishing to identify with Ancient Egypt is certainly as understandable as all the identifying with Rome that we've done.