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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Paying to do compulsory subjects at school

111 replies

SideOfFoot · 16/08/2016 20:24

DD has been asked to contribute £25 towards home economics at school. Considering she is at a state school and doing this subject is compulsory AIBU to think that it is cheeky to ask for money.

OP posts:
sooperdooper · 18/08/2016 07:44

It's for ingredients. The country voted Tory and this is what we get.

I'm no fan of the Torys but that's nonsense, I went to school in the 90s under a labour government and we had to pay for our own cookery ingredients, much easier to pay up front and I bet it's cheaper overall than having to pick up random items

PikachuSayBoo · 18/08/2016 07:45

The food might not be worth £25 but if your dd learns to then that's well worth £25.

I suppose the alternative is that they don't do home economics. My dds school doesn't. It's quite a deprived area and I guess they know most parents wouldn't pay/wouldn't buy ingredients and the school can't afford to buy it all so they don't do it.

So despite all my attempts dd at 15yo can't make anything apart from toast!

LunaLoveg00d · 18/08/2016 07:46

English state schools are not allowed to charge for ingredients

given that the poster has created the thread on the week Scottish schools go back, she's probably in Scotland. Different system here - we are charged for Home Ec lessons and always have been, there is no "contrbution" option for trips either, you pay it or don't go.

And if they're not allowed to charge to ingredients, but can supply a shopping list of stuff you have to send in, what's the difference?

Hulababy · 18/08/2016 07:47

I reckon I spent far more than £25 for dd's ingredients in a year so would be happy with that.

And yes - had to take own ingredients in when I was growing up. Nothing to do with the present government ime.

CakeNinja · 18/08/2016 08:53

Actually Bear, my dd is similar.
I pay £30, she does one term of food tech. she cooks every other week. So it's probably about 6 times she cooks.

bearleftmonkeyright · 18/08/2016 09:20

They have cooked a lot of cheap things, Mars bar crunch Hmm and I have always chosen vegetarian options when they did things like stir fry. I tried to keep it less than £2. If it's £25 for all subjects it's probably fairly realistic.

unlucky83 · 18/08/2016 09:42

Don't know if they still do -but at DDs (Scottish) school they used to have a reward system in the first couple of years. They got behaviour stamps in lessons and if they got enough they got to go on a fun reward trip in summer -eg to a theme park /other attraction.
First year DD didn't really know and didn't bother collecting stamps and was gutted she missed out. So second year she did -I was stunned to find (unless you were on FSM) parents had to contribute towards the trip ...iirc £25 for the time she went - probably didn't cover the full cost but still.... if the parents couldn't -or refused- to pay the child didn't get their reward. I kind of understand and had no problem paying personally but still I thought that wasn't really fair.

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/08/2016 10:01

BoomBoomsCousin

Since at least 2008 English state schools are not allowed to charge for ingredients

We don't supply ingredients because if we did that would be the entire departments budget gone on one fifth of the subject.

ThePinkOcelot · 18/08/2016 11:45

I think it's a great idea. Saves me going out buying ingredients every week. I think I would spend a hell of a lot more money if I had to go out. My sister has to go out and has to weigh all of the ingredients. She would prefer to pay yearly.

Fortybingowings · 18/08/2016 12:42

Country is broke.
Education is not funded adequately nor health by a longshot.
These sort of top up costs are par for the course.
If you want it ALL included for free then we will all have to start paying more in tax

BoomBoomsCousin · 20/08/2016 08:04

Boney you can't legally charge for ingredients (unless parents indicate they want the finished product) anymore than you can legally charge students to have a teacher. State schools are obliged to provide the curriculum free at point of service. Families have the same right to free food tech lessons as they do to free chemistry lessons. It's up to the schools to manage the budget, not up to parents to underwrite them when a department's lesson plans are more adventurous than their budget.

Voluntary donations are one thing, but schools have no authority to push a stealth tax on parents by insisting on extra payments for education. The way schools present these charges as requirements is really unethical.

LunaLoveg00d · 20/08/2016 08:07

BoomBoom - in England. And possibly Wales.

Poster has not said where she is, likely Scotland where schools returned this week. And where things are different.

dementedpixie · 20/08/2016 08:44

Dd has just had her letter out. They are asking for £15 and that covers home economics including making food, using textiles and also for when they do stuff like woodwork, metalwork, etc. They will also provide any containers that are required

BoomBoomsCousin · 20/08/2016 08:52

Luna that particular response was to Boney, and was part of a back and forth explicitly about English schools. But, I'm pretty certain that Scotland has the same requirement for its state schools to provide education free of charge to pupils, Citizen's Advice Scotland seems to agree.

hesterton · 20/08/2016 09:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/08/2016 23:03

BoomBoomsCousin

My point is that we don't supply ingredients, the overwhelming majority of schools in England don't and as per your point the food goes home to the parents (or gets eaten by the pupils) we don't keep the finished product, so by your own post we would be allowed to charge.

As for parents underwriting lesson plans, we get about £4.5 per pupil for the year. try organising a years budget on that.

thatsn0tmyname · 20/08/2016 23:07

So many children forget their ingredients that it's easier and less disruptive if the teacher shops for you.

Thelyingbitchandthewardrobe · 20/08/2016 23:09

We had to bring money for ingredients back in the 90s in Scotland. I hated my home economic lessons, but I'm sure I got something out.of it - even the tiny fact that I learned to cut butter in a downwards motion rather than scrape across the top.

Anyway, no, the state school should not be charging for compulsory lessons. I even resent the small fee for music lessons, but ok. This isn't the same.

smellyboot · 20/08/2016 23:22

80s high school child and we always always bought own ingredients. PITA when you forgot until day before. I am sure my poor mother went insane. For o level we had to buy decent crockery too as had to have dishes and coffee pot !! With mine I'd give anything to hand over the cash and be done with it !

stupidgreatgrinonmyface · 20/08/2016 23:40

But you're not paying for the lesson. You're paying for the food that DC either eats at school or brings home. When I was at school, pupils who couldn't pay, just told the teacher who would then supply ingredients but would keep the finished product instead of sending it home with the pupil.
In the primary school where I now work, we used to do a lot of 'cooking ' with our pupils. But now that budgets are so tight, we only really do it if parents are happy to contribute ingredients or costs, otherwise the staff end up paying for it out of their pocket. It really isn't about schools managing their budgets. Money is being cut so much that some schools locally have cut support staff to a minimum and are now having to look at losing teaching staff. They really can't afford to be buying ingredients for cookery lessons.

HerdsOfWilderbeest · 20/08/2016 23:53

English state schools are not allowed to charge for ingredients

That is untrue. From this guidance www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/514619/Charging_for_school_activities.pdf from October 2014.

Page 14:

Q. Can the school charge for something like cooking ingredients or materials needed for a technology lesson?
A. The school can make a charge to cover the costs of materials/ingredients for subjects such as design or food technology where parents have indicated in advance that they would like their child to bring home the finished product.

In reality, if parents refused to pay then that part of the curriculum would be cut.

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2016 00:04

£25? Parents whining about £25? Ok, I understand that it's an issue for parents who can't afford it and there will probably be provision for that, but seriously? Schools have no money. Complain about the £25 and what will happen is not that the school will suddenly magic up the money from somewhere, but that the school will stop offering food tech, will sell the cookers to pay for maths textbooks, and will offer whittling interestingly shaped pieces of wood found on the playground instead.

BoomBoomsCousin · 21/08/2016 18:22

Herds it's that critical bit where parents have indicated in advance that they would like their child to bring the finished product home. if parents don't want that then the school must provide the education without charge.

Our schools would also be able to provide better resources and education if they made every family give them £1000 every year, or £100, or £50, or just £10. But they aren't allowed to do this and telling people it's for ingredients doesn't change that.

Hockeydude · 21/08/2016 18:38

It's nothing to do with who's in government. Schools' budgets are massively overstretched and have been for decades. When I was at school, we had to take in our own ingredients and therefore pay for them. It's likely you'll get the food home afterwards to eat anyway. Do you expect school to provide all pens, pencils, uniform etc? That's all compulsory but needs paying for.

HerdsOfWilderbeest · 21/08/2016 20:30

Boom well it's straightforward then: the OP writes and says she refuses to pay. But schools can legally charge, which is the point you made.