Summer born boy

[summertimeover]

Ok so I am probably being unreasonable... But aggagagagahaghhh.

Just met up with a friend who has a September born DD. I have a v late Summer born DS. They have both just completed their first year in reception. My friend just said "that age and sex are irrelevant when discussing childrens' progress in the first few years at school"

I was a bit... thinking my little boy hates colouring and is 10 months younger than your daughter... He is obviously not going to be doing as much/as well. She seems to think they have both been in school for the same length of time, so to blame age is an excuse...

I have a late summer born boy. There definitely is a difference. In reception he was quite non compliant and would refuse to do things like sit at the table and draw for example. His first teacher went on maternity leave half through reception and new teacher found him challenging and was a bit on a crusade against him (silly cow). I would hear how he is too self centered and should be 'out of that stage by now'. We did not like her one bit but DS was kind of oblivious so we carried on till the end on the year.
Reading was a stuggle as well, i was despairing. At 7 he now is good at reading but in reception i just could not get him to do that, he would refuse or get very upset. Funnily enough he was more interested in it towards the end of reception and closer to being 5 (the age big part of his classmates were already).
Same story with writing, not interested at first and then more into it.

He was never much into drawing, colouring in, always preferred talking to people (his language skills were better than other kids).

So in my experience, there is a difference. Also, i think boys are different than girls, they tend to be less into activities that involve prolonged sitting down.

I wouldn't worry, you'll see he will do just fine. Your friend obviously has it easier with her daughter, let her comments wash over you, kids are all different and pick up things at different pace.

But surely as a parent it's your job to reduce the gap. If you have a child born in July, you start far earlier at home practicing them sitting and focusing, using a pencil, learning to wait and be patient. If you start this from 2, and others start at 3, they have evened out much more.

Yes it makes a massive difference at this age.

No it doesn't make a difference long term.

Your son is pretty much a year younger than her dd.

Colouring makes a massive difference in fine motor skills / handwriting etc.

Please don't worry? Kids in some other countries like Sweden i think don't even go to school until they're 7..

There is no gap to reduce. Don't fall for that shit. Let the child enjoy school and progress at his or her own rate, support their learning by taking an interest, be enthusiastic.

I hate how schools and parents push their primary aged kids, at this age, they should be having fun!

Having gone through primary with a summer born boy, I feel the temptation was to force them to do extra work to help them catch up. I know I was guilty of this and I very nearly put him off education. I was told on an almost daily basis that ds couldn't listen, ds was told by the teacher constantly that he couldn't listen, he had no friends as all the other boys were as the teacher put it - a lot more street smart. No one had any solutions just continuous complaints. I moved him to a less pushy, less academic, seemingly - to everyone else power school but it was a more supportive school. They nurtured him and allowed him to develop without pressure, encouraged friendships in a very useful and practical way. He's at secondary now, doing fantastically well. But I look back at those first years of primary, at that awful, apparently outstanding school, and the pressure I felt from the teachers and subsequently placed on my dc was awful and I bitterly regret it, he doesn't remember but I'm glad I got a grip. They learn when they are ready - when they have developed otherwise it's like pushing water up a stream. Don't start forcing a 2 year old to sit at a desk to practice writing - that way lies the dark side.

Sorry that post was too long - quick summery - don't try to narrow the gap, that will happen as the child develops.

Not power school - lower grade school - apologies I was too busy ranting to proof read.

Don't start forcing a 2 year old to sit at a desk to practice writing - that way lies the dark side.

Absolutely. In Reception you want, above all else, for your child to enjoy going to school and learning. Don't destroy that before they've even started.

You can't argue with statistics. Summer born children do fare worse than Autumn born. And boys struggle with reading and writing in particular.

And don't compare your kids' academic achievements with your friends. It makes nobody happy.

'Dumber boys' You don't work in education do you Griphook?

But surely as a parent it's your job to reduce the gap. If you have a child born in July, you start far earlier at home practicing them sitting and focusing, using a pencil, learning to wait and be patient. If you start this from 2, and others start at 3, they have evened out much more.

Oh good grief! that's got to be the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read on MN! The Victorians called - they want their attitude to education back!

My daughter would happily have sat at a desk using a pencil and "focusing" at 2. It's just the sort of child she is. 5 years ago I'd probably have nodded at your sage advice. However, now I have a summer born boy who at 2 years old would not have sat still for 2 seconds flat. His pencil grip remains shocking - he just can't get it, he's not ready, very standard with younger boys, my teacher friends tell me. Sitting him at a desk and making him learn, focus and be patient would have knocked all the fun adn joy out of his toddlerhood.

My job as a parent of apreschooler was to follow his lead, let him do the things he loved doing, and find leaning opportunities in those ("oh look at all your octonauts, how many Gups have you got? 8? Yes that's right, how many of them are green?). And guess what, that's pretty much how pre-school and the start of Reception work. YR kids don't sit at desks and write nicely!

I'm flabberghasted!

I'm not saying you force them to sit at a desk. But all children regardless of birthdays should be helped to be ready.

Sitting with them and helping them at 2 draw a stick man 2 mins, then progressing to drawing alone for 10 mins over time. Or getting them learning to sit at table with a board game and waiting to take turns with you. Or getting them from weaning to wait at the table with you until everyone has finished. That's practice. It takes time. Expecting them on sept 1st to know it regardless of age if you haven't practiced in daily life is going to be hard for them.

Art none of that stuff translated into doing better at school. Ds played board games - he was good at waiting, he could dress himself etc but in a classroom it all fell to shit - he was terribly distracted by all the goings on. Teacher accused me of not allowing him to dress himself - he'd been dressing himself since he was 2! Advised me to sit and eat with him - he'd been sitting, eating with me since he was 9 bloody months ffs - it made no bloody difference! He could listen to a story at home no bother, I read to him several times a day, but he could not listen for more than 2 secs at school - different environment - different skills and they didn't transfer! I was constantly accused of not doing enough stuff with him and this is the kind of shit that encouraged me to do far too much and it was not good or helpful for me or ds. Essentially I was blamed for ds being a summer born boy - and I'm still bloody annoyed about it.

omg can't they just bloody play and have fun and be little children? Do they have to work to reach the heady heights of the red table?

Of course age makes a massive difference!

At that age as well, 10 months is a very big difference.

Cannot wait to face/deal with all this competitive parenting shite in a few years time!

Have managed to avoid it for the first 2 years as I didn't bother with NCT, baby groups etc...so not my thing

I am already sad enough that i get one year less than i should at home with my PSB, there is no way i will be trying to reduce any gap by getting him to do anything which doesn't come naturally in his age appropriate development.

What i will be doing tho is fighting tooth and nail to let him start the following year. Seeing as he was born last few days of August, 3 weeks early and had to be sectioned out due to complications and the fucking bank holiday , i think it's unfair that he is really a September child in an August child's body and should not have to be the youngest in the year.

However, I have also seen people saying babies born from 1st April - 1st Sept are 'Summer babies' in this context and should be able to defer. But i think that is really stretching it. I think only July and August babies should be considered this way.

As an aside i like speaking to other parents about the dc's and their peers development. Being someone who has never grown up with children about this is my first experience of them. And i genuinely have no real idea where my dc are in relation to age appropriate development. Which is why i often ask other parents questions so i can see if i need to be worried.

I do this because the first 18 months of ds1 life i thought he was average, but only when i started talking to other parents did i realise he was very behind and it has emerged he has ASD. Without those 'oh is he colouring/speaking/pointing' conversations i would have had no real idea.

There has been a massive campaign by Bliss (the premature baby charity) to allow parents of babies who were born in the previous school year than they should have been to defer entry because the difference is so extreme. For example if my daughter had been due in September she would have been born in June and that would have put her in a different school year. I believe there are similar campaigns for full term summer born children.

On top of age there are normal differences between children. Some will be better academically whereas others will be better creatively or socially. Try not to compare (although I appreciate its your friend who should really take that advice!)

I actually think many schools are really good with having the younger kids in class. At ds1's first school they had the door open nearly all day so they could run in and out, and there was very little difference between school and nursery. I had been petrified about him being so little at school but it was great for him, and then my summer born daughter a few years later. I think too little credit is given to early years teachers who manage to creatively engage young children. Maybe we've been particularly lucky but I've seen some really lovely learning through play in the 3 schools my kids have been to, building on the particular interests of the kids in the class.

MrsKoala, you shouldn't have to fight at all. The parents of ANY summerborn child can now delay their child's start in Reception, without any extenuating circumstances above and beyond a summer birthday. School may try to dissuade you, but it's between you nad the LEA, adn they cannot refuse the request.

Join the Flexible School Admissions for Summer Borns Facebook group. Get your stuff in order, delaying school will be an absolute doddle. It wasn't even that hard for me to delay my son,. and that was before the legislation changed.

School's approach has approach has changed massively since my ds was in reception - more play based and less formal desk based learning and of course you can now delay the age they start. Follow your heart - you know when you child is ready.

Thanks. Someone told me I still have to apply to the school in the 'correct' year then once he has been accepted ask to defer. But I am not sure that is right.

I'm hopeless at fb. Do I just ask to join then when I do ask random questions (sorry, I know I sound very dim )

Pingu not sure that's true in every LEA.

This years admissions booklet for my LEA (for applications for children due to start school in September 2016, so turning 5 between 1st Sep 2016 and 31st Aug 2017) gives guidelines on how to apply for deferred entry to reception, but says that the final decision on whether to agree to deferred entry is up to them. The wording also suggests that successful deferral is also conditional on the preferred schools agreeing.

So much depends on where you are. Here I just contacted admissions for a deferral form, sent it back, they spoke to the head of our desired school (obviously we still have to apply but just to sound them out) and then they wrote and said yes. We would now apply with the cohort 'below' him for a 2017 start, when he is 5 and 4 months.

Our daughter started at 4 yrs and 10 days. It was too young by far. She is now home educated.

It should be the same everywhere, if the LE is following DofE guidelines.

MrsKoala,

You've been misinformed. Join the FB group, they have the most up to date info, but the decision is made at LEA level and the schools are simply informed. my son is one of 2 deferred kids in his class going into Reception. It'll get more and more common, but when you're one of the first people doing it, it can be daunting. School will try to dissuade you, the first person you speak to at the LEA may not know what the heck you're talking about, but once you're threough to the right person, it's very straightforward. I can almost guarantee the Summer Borns FB group will have someone in your area who has successfully deferred and can give you all the necessary info to make it easy for you.

MrsJoey , the rules are the same for every LEA in England and Wales. Summer born children can on parental request be delayed to start Reception at Cumpulsory School age, i.e. 5 years old. Some (many?!) LEAs publish ambiguous literature adn try to dissuade you and / or put obstacles in your path, however the it's a nationwide policy.

Thank you. I will join. How early do you have to start preparing? (Ds2) is 2 at the end of this month and would be starting school in 2 years.