AIB precious

[Asuitablemum]

Came home from work and nanny, who was looking after the kids, was telling me how the day went. In both of children's hearing (they were on my knee), she said '4 yo has been really good today especially as 1 yo has been quite spiteful today. She bit him once.'

Is it just me or is it a bit harsh to call a (wonderful) 1yo spiteful. And to say it in front of them can't be good for sibling relations can it? 4yo then started backing her up, say about pulling hair etc. Or is this something most people might say?

I'm not really upset by it, it just seemed a bit off. Luckily she doesn't do most of the childcare.

[mathanxiety]

At about age 7, and certainly by 8, LaContessa. He was not being spiteful at age 1 and he still isn't.

[Buddahbelly]

The 1yo can hear and understand a lot of words and also the way it is said.

have you entered the 1 year old for genius of the year yet?

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I hate all these negative words. I was raised by a critical and narcissistic mother, who used negativity as a stick to beat me When you said what the grandma said, it made me bristle and it's not even my baby. Yes, this is setting up sibling rivalry. I think you need a chat with your 4 yr old as well as with grandma.

[RickOShay]

YANBU at all. She is a baby, she didn't bite because she is spiteful, she bit because she is a baby and that's what they do, or some of them anyway.
I would say something. You are right to find it a bit off, and not being precious.

[mathanxiety]

On reflection, I'm not sure if deliberately trying to hurt someone is really covered by the word 'spiteful', though, if it's physical hurt. Spite imo is generally used to refer to verbal hurt, or to calculated revenge. Spite is something I associate with the preteen years and the early teen years in girls, with cliques and bullying.

If someone is physically hurting others, then perhaps impulse control is an issue, or there is a deficit in empathy (after age 7/8) and in the case of biting there may be a sensory thing going on too.

Up to age 7/8 there is sometimes still a little exploration of cause and effect going on, and sometimes an inability to recall a prior instruction or consequence of a certain choice of behaviour.

After age 7/8 there may also be too little consistency of consequences or consequences that are too indirect or weak.

[228agreenend]

I'm wondering whether you are overthinking the use of the word spiteful, and your nanny really only meant that he was just being naughtier or playing up more than usual.

Probably not good to say it in front of the children but we've all done it without thinking.

I think the only precious comment in you op was the use if the word 'wonderful' because it implies you believe your kid can do no harm.

I know lots of grandparents referred to as nanny (south East England)

[FuckFaceMagee]

Kids bite, especially at that age. I'm guessing 1yo is teething too.

Id be pissed if some ass wipe called my kid spiteful. If the kid was 7/8 yeah, the kid would just be being a jerk but at 1yo they are still getting to know what's right and wrong.

[Clandestino]

She's their nanny, not a member of their admiration club. If you are so precious about your children maybe you should stay at home and bring them up yourself.
If my childminder gives out to my DD or would say she were spiteful, I'd accept it because she is essentially bringing her up during the time I'm at work and has the right to be honest about her.

[KittyVonCatsington]

Please RTFT people! She is taking about the children's grandmother, NOT a paid employee!!!

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Well I fucking wouldn't from an employee Clandestino. And she's not anyway, it's a grandmother.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

And thank you for perfectly illustrating the correct use of spiteful.

[bluebillyberry]

Thank you Kallyno for saying what I came on to say.

Children bite for a wide range of reasons. They often repeat as they like the predictable reaction or it is how they've begun to learn to deal with frustration.

They haven't yet developed the theory of mind to be able to recognise the person who has been bitten has feelings and doesn't like it, nor the self regulation to restrain next time.

Calling a child of this age spiteful implies they have the self awareness and empathy of a much older child. But I wouldn't even call an older child spiteful actually; a) any behaviour is done for a reason and the child needs help and b) you just don't label children with negative labels as they stick.

I really don't think it's precious to have found it odd / off. It was inappropriate but clearly generational and as it was a grandmother needs to be dealt with differently to if it was an actual nanny.

Op, Janet Lansbury has excellent advice on all matters toddler/ preschool - high expectations.

[Paintedhandprints]

Yanbu. It was poor form to say it in front of the 4yo. At this age they pick-up on everything. How many of you have heard a 4yo come out with something that happened ages ago and were a bit surprised they remembered it. Up to age 6 is when children have the highest capacity for learning.
If you don't feel you can gently suggest alternative methods to your mum/Mil, I would certainly have a chat with your 4yo about how 1yo was wrong, etc.
Agree with Bluebillyberry.
Contessa I suggest you contact your Gp about these feelings you have toward your 5yo. You dont sound happy.

[Clandestino]

Well I fucking wouldn't from an employee Clandestino. And she's not anyway, it's a grandmother.

Well, I fucking would, if the employee is there to bring up a child. Way too many spoilt brats out there because their mothers believe they shit golden nuggets and that bringing up a self-confident person means you let them get away with everything. Not even a one-year old child should get away with biting someone else. And a Nan should have the right too. I certainly wouldn't mind if my Mum called my DD spiteful if she deliberately bit her cousin.

[3littlefrogs]

Referring to a one year old as "spiteful" (which implies a calculated, evil, thought process prior to a planned act) is ignorant and nasty.

A one year old is not capable of spite.

This is the sort of thing that can spoil the sibling relationship IMO.

It sounds as though the grandmother doesn't understand the meaning of the word, nor does she understand much about child development.

[OutsSelf]

FGS. Calling children names because they misbehaved is shitty. Especially when you plan to stop them calling others names when they are older. It is not permissive parenting, or raising a brat, to withhold on the name calling. There is a vast difference between intervention, discipline and name calling. Refusing to call your pre-verbal child judgemental and shaming names does not equate to believing it shits golden nuggets.

I would expect an employee who is supposed to be childraising to have better strategies. It's harder with the grandmother but I'd be on it, gently talking about how we don't want the children calling each other names, and can we talk about behaviour rather than intentions. This is not about letting the kid get away with anything, it's about good interventions.

[Tomselleckhaskindeyes]

I'm gobsmacked by the replies on here. She was describing her day. I have been in the position of looking after my children of 4 and 22 months and it can be quite stressful and my 22 month twins could squabble with my 4 year old steal his toys and generally make life difficult for all of us. She used one strong word to describe what she felt happened that day. It is exhausting looking after young children all day maybe she didn't use the best word but she probably is of a different generation where we didn't have to watch every word that is said. I know my husband would come home to me after a hard day of looking after young children and worse would hsbc been said!

[derxa]

The child is almost 2 and biting is spiteful.
I remember at toddler group once the daughter of a friend of mine bit another child and snatched a toy from her. The mother's reaction was, 'She has a very strong sense of what is hers!'

[5moreminutes]

I agree spiteful is absolutely the wrong word - it conveys absolute malevolence and intensional vindictiveness.

The 4 yo absolutely did understand the word as she piled in with more examples.

Saying 4 yo has been good and 1 yo has been spiteful is really quite unpleasant if the words were "chosen" - hopefully it was a case of grandma not thinking through her choice of words at all and she didn't actually mean spiteful.

It matters because the 4 yo understands not because the baby might. It sets 4 yo up as golden and 1 yo as inclined towards properly malevolent actions, rather than 4 yo up as a lovely big sibling to a baby who acts like a a baby and is fully expected to to learn to be a lovely sibling too in time.

Absolutely right to say 4yo has been good and so tolerant of the baby's tricky biting and hair pulling phase.

People defending the word spiteful must either not actually know what it means or else genuinely attribute spite (with its implications of consciously vicious intent) to the actions of babies!

[3littlefrogs]

Obviously the biting needs to be dealt with in an age appropriate way and the four year old needs praise for being good.

But biting is a common developmental phase of development and is not due to spite.

The use of the word, and the way it was handled with the four year old was very poor behaviour from the grandmother.

[3littlefrogs]

Sorry, should have read more carefully before posting - got my development/developmentals mixed up.

Multi-tasking atm.

[Ohflippinheck]

This thread makes me want to bite people.

I think it's unreasonable to expect every interaction your children have with adults to be worded exactly as you would like.
Don't expect GPs to know exactly how you'd like a sentence phrased. Please don't undermine her.
When you're looking after them looking after them you set the tone. But you have to respect Nanny's opinion too.

[5moreminutes]

Who'd want their 20 month old looked after by somebody who thought they were spiteful ohflippin - its a properly nasty quality to attribute to a child, nothing like naughty or boisterous or difficult or trying...

The word spiteful carries a strong message of dislike.

[Ohflippinheck]

It's quite an old fashioned word and certainly amongst my parents generation (65+) it was widely used in relation to children.

The behaviour is spiteful - and spitefulness is an unlike able quality. But of course it's perfectly normal for a child to be testing those boundaries. I think a 4 year old would understand the nuance between a spiteful behaviour and a spiteful person.
And the OP certainly sounds like she is able to communicate that distinction.

Of course, it's preferrable to use positive language where you can but ffs this is the kids' grandmother casually telling mum what they've been up to. It's such a storm in a teacup.

[5moreminutes]

ohflippin the behaviour isn't spiteful because spite is all about having malicious intent - no 20 month old has the forethought or understanding for spite.

Biting is obviously nasty, but there is no spite in it when a child under 2 does it - it needs stopping but it is not a sign of malice or bitterness or all the very "grown up" bitter ill will that the word spiteful conveys.