AIB precious

[Asuitablemum]

Came home from work and nanny, who was looking after the kids, was telling me how the day went. In both of children's hearing (they were on my knee), she said '4 yo has been really good today especially as 1 yo has been quite spiteful today. She bit him once.'

Is it just me or is it a bit harsh to call a (wonderful) 1yo spiteful. And to say it in front of them can't be good for sibling relations can it? 4yo then started backing her up, say about pulling hair etc. Or is this something most people might say?

I'm not really upset by it, it just seemed a bit off. Luckily she doesn't do most of the childcare.

[Asuitablemum]

Yes English is the first language.

[Ohflippinheck]

'4 yo has been really good today especially as 1 yo has been quite spiteful today. She bit him once.'

You would honestly honestly stop the grandmother looking after the children for this statement?

[deathandtaxes123]

Is English her first language?

[mathanxiety]

It's not 'one word out of place'.

She played the children off against each other. The older child joined in when she heard the baby criticised, reciting other things the baby had done.

I think the conversation may well have been a stroke of luck for the OP because it gave her a glimpse of something horrible going on.

[Ohflippinheck]

mathanxiety are you really suggesting that the grandmother doesn't look after the children any more on the basis of 1 word out of place?

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Regarding the spelling of nanny for grandparent. Nannie is a word I've never seen, always writ nanny. So I suppose it is interchangeable as in aunty or auntie.

[Tomselleckhaskindeyes]

Guess what maths anxiety I have had childcare and it was more expensive than our mortgage and believe me it was the cheapest option used. Not patronising at all.

[mathanxiety]

Childcare is not necessarily very dear.

What cost peace of mind anyway?

I may be biased as a former nanny, but I would choose the paid childcare over a relative who doesn't seem to understand much about normal baby and child development. At least with someone who has some training and will get their next job based on their performance in their current one, you know you have someone motivated to do their best for your children.

[Tomselleckhaskindeyes]

Omg go get childcare that is very dear or accept that people are human and don't always behave as we expect. That goes for a 20 month old to a 100 year old. We are all getting a bit precious if we consider giving up free childcare from a loving yet flawed grandparent to a paid professional. (Who also won't always behave/say the right thing all the time). I have 3 kids and I have seen spiteful behaviour from them some of the time and from a very young age. On the whole they are lovely kids though but have their moments. Just as I do because I am human.

[mathanxiety]

Naughty implies intent too, and knowledge of expected behaviour.

If someone looking after my children were to say what the granny here said, I would start looking for someone else to do the job because I would expect someone providing childcare to understand baby and child development.

This isn't a question of wording - it's ignorance of developmental norms and also an inappropriate choice of how to deal with something that came up that is absolutely normal and to be expected when looking after more than one baby or small child.

If she felt so overwhelmed by her day that she chose such a loaded word word that conveyed ill-feelings or frustration towards a baby of 20 months, that's yet another reason I would start looking for someone else.

And then there is this:
It matters because the 4 yo understands not because the baby might. It sets 4 yo up as golden and 1 yo as inclined towards properly malevolent actions, rather than 4 yo up as a lovely big sibling to a baby who acts like a a baby and is fully expected to to learn to be a lovely sibling too in time.

Absolutely right to say 4yo has been good and so tolerant of the baby's tricky biting and hair pulling phase.

^^THIS by 5moreminutes
The golden child element is extremely important here. It is extremely unhealthy.

(FWIW, I have never hired someone to do childcare for me apart from evening babysitters, but I did work as a nanny fora while and I would fully expect to be fired if I came out with a statement like this gran's).

[Ohflippinheck]

That's a very confident pronouncement Sandy.
I'm pretty sure every greetings card maker spells it 'nanny'.

[minipie]

Don't agree Sandy. Lots of families call their granny Nanny. Spelled with a Y. Actually I've never seen it spelled Nannie!

[SandyPantz]

the grandparent spelling of the word that sounds like Nanny is Nannie! I've never seen it written as Nanny, Nanny sounds the same but is an employee

[Ohflippinheck]

I think the word itself is obviously more powerful to some people than others 5. As I said before it was in common use amongst my parents generation so I see it on a level with words like naughty or nasty.

I'm sorry asuitablemum but I do think it's precious to protect the DCs from a pretty standard conversation. Nanny probably already used the word at the time it happened!

[Asuitablemum]

Sorry about the nanny thing, my bad! Think saying '4yo has been good because 1yo was naughty' in front of them I don't think would be brilliant either. Bit better. I'd rather she just told me away from them about any bad behaviour honestly. As an adult I wouldn't like it if people started discussed all the things I'd done wrong that day at the end of the day in front of everyone.

[DelicatePreciousThing1]

The word "spiteful", that is. Some other contributors are also reading too much into it. The grandmother might just have said naughty. Would that have passed muster?

[DelicatePreciousThing1]

Also, you are reading far too much into the word. Far too much.

[DelicatePreciousThing1]

OP:
I think your use of the word "nanny" is misleading.

[5moreminutes]

The words people choose generally do tell us quite a lot about what they think, unless they actually don't understand the words they choose. If somebody casually described the baby/ small toddler they had been looking after all day as having been spiteful I would assume that, for today at least, they did not like that child!

[5moreminutes]

ohflippin the behaviour isn't spiteful because spite is all about having malicious intent - no 20 month old has the forethought or understanding for spite.

Biting is obviously nasty, but there is no spite in it when a child under 2 does it - it needs stopping but it is not a sign of malice or bitterness or all the very "grown up" bitter ill will that the word spiteful conveys.

[Ohflippinheck]

It's quite an old fashioned word and certainly amongst my parents generation (65+) it was widely used in relation to children.

The behaviour is spiteful - and spitefulness is an unlike able quality. But of course it's perfectly normal for a child to be testing those boundaries. I think a 4 year old would understand the nuance between a spiteful behaviour and a spiteful person.
And the OP certainly sounds like she is able to communicate that distinction.

Of course, it's preferrable to use positive language where you can but ffs this is the kids' grandmother casually telling mum what they've been up to. It's such a storm in a teacup.

[5moreminutes]

Who'd want their 20 month old looked after by somebody who thought they were spiteful ohflippin - its a properly nasty quality to attribute to a child, nothing like naughty or boisterous or difficult or trying...

The word spiteful carries a strong message of dislike.

[Ohflippinheck]

This thread makes me want to bite people.

I think it's unreasonable to expect every interaction your children have with adults to be worded exactly as you would like.
Don't expect GPs to know exactly how you'd like a sentence phrased. Please don't undermine her.
When you're looking after them looking after them you set the tone. But you have to respect Nanny's opinion too.

[3littlefrogs]

Sorry, should have read more carefully before posting - got my development/developmentals mixed up.

Multi-tasking atm.

[3littlefrogs]

Obviously the biting needs to be dealt with in an age appropriate way and the four year old needs praise for being good.

But biting is a common developmental phase of development and is not due to spite.

The use of the word, and the way it was handled with the four year old was very poor behaviour from the grandmother.