AIB precious

[Asuitablemum]

Came home from work and nanny, who was looking after the kids, was telling me how the day went. In both of children's hearing (they were on my knee), she said '4 yo has been really good today especially as 1 yo has been quite spiteful today. She bit him once.'

Is it just me or is it a bit harsh to call a (wonderful) 1yo spiteful. And to say it in front of them can't be good for sibling relations can it? 4yo then started backing her up, say about pulling hair etc. Or is this something most people might say?

I'm not really upset by it, it just seemed a bit off. Luckily she doesn't do most of the childcare.

[LyndaNotLinda]

I don't think a one year old is capable of spite. Spiteful is deliberately being malicious. A baby isn't deliberately malicious - they are testing out the world. Biting flesh feels nice. They are learning about cause and effect.

It's an idiotic thing to say and would piss me off too. YANBU

[minipie]

I'm with you OP - sort of

1. babies of 1yo cannot be spiteful in my understanding of the word - it means deliberately nasty
   
   
2. even if a child did do something spiteful, not a good idea to say so within hearing of her sibling.
   
   However... if this is unpaid childcare from Granny, I think you need to be a bit more tolerant of the odd comment that you don't like.

[Asuitablemum]

Yes mini pie, I'm with you. I didn't say anything.

[LagunaBubbles]

Why are you calling your Mum or MIL "the nanny"? People are still replying based on what you initially said and it's pointless e.g. "Get a new one"!!

[DamaskRose]

YANBU

It's not spite at that age. Spiteful of nanny if 4yr old is encouraged to collude against a preverbal child and would harm sibling dynamic if it continued

[Sunshineonacloudyday]

LaContessaDiPlump your baby is not being spiteful you have to teach him that it hurts and not to do it. Speak to your hv and talk to her about your feelings and let her explain to you the strategies you can use. Calling your 1yr old spiteful is very weird reaction and you should speak to someone about it.

[Sunshineonacloudyday]

If this is granny calling her grandchild spiteful you have to say something your oldest will use it against your little one. Sibling rivalry make sure you are on top of it and don't allow even one slip up. My children rarely fight but it was a battle working through that sibling rivalry but it can be done.

[Canyouforgiveher]

um, wouldn't the OPPOSITE be bad for sibling relations? i.e. not acknowledging that the 1yo did something unacceptable to the 4yo, it's important that their experience is acknowledged!

yes but it doesn't have to be labelled something it isn't. A simple "we don't bite. Don't do that." remove him from the scene and then tell the 4 year old "that is not acceptable but sometimes babies take a while to learn this - we will make sure to teach him".

I can't imagine it is particularly helpful to the 4 year old to feel not only did the 1 year old bite her and hurt her physically but he did it out of spite. The 1 year old bit because that is what 1 year olds sometimes do. They are then taught not to. They are still very oral at that age. They do it when they are frustrated or upset or want something (we preserved some of the incident reports from when my son was a toddler - some of the biting ones are absolutely factual and very funny).

I wouldn't care about the 1 year old hearing this. But I would the 4 year old. It is not a good idea for a 4 year old to think her younger brother is being spiteful toward her- when he doesn't even have the capacity to feel that complex emotion.

[LongGrass]

I actually don't think a 1 year old can be "spiteful". As someone said its a calculating behaviour! Its putting adult connotations on a baby FFS. There are plenty of reasons why a 1 year old might bite, but "being spiteful" is not one of them - I think it says more about your nanny.. I also agree she is labelling siblings quite unnecessarily in a black and white way. I think your nanny sounds immature tbh.

[LongGrass]

sorry its granny! agree with Minipie!

[Saracen]

My MIL would have come out with this sort of thing. While I don't agree with her, I don't think it will do the kids any harm once in a while, assuming she is lovely in other respects.

Your children will pick up most of their attitudes from the people who look after them once. If a grandmother says something odd once in a blue moon, which is different from their parents' take on the situation, they'll just figure that she has peculiar ideas.

So I would privately be a bit bothered, but I would never say anything to MIL. I'd later take the opportunity to ensure that the 4yo knew I didn't agree with those views.

[Saracen]

• "the people who look after them MOST"

[blue25]

1 year olds are not spiteful. They bite and carry out other physical responses because that's how they communicate without language.

[Liiinoo]

Most DCS bite at one time or another. Let's face it, they put everything else in their mouths. Why not their siblings too?

It is not spiteful, it is normal. If they continue to do it at an age when they understand that it hurts then maybe they could be labelled spiteful.

it is not good for the children to hear themselves described in such negative terms. Even if the baby didn't understand (And they understand a lot more than we realise and can pick up on moods and nuances long, long before they become verbal) the sister did. She now 'knows' she has a spiteful baby sister and could either begin to fear her or play on it. Labels like that can stick for life.

All that needs to be said is 'Don't bite your sister, it hurts her' , then if the behaviour is repeated then naughty step/no TV/whatever calm sanction works for the child. Let the parent know in private.

[Bluechip]

I think YANBU. Spiteful is a nasty word to use. '4yo has been v good even though 1yo bit him. We explained that isn't what you do even if you're cross as biting isn't nice'

[Bluechip]

Agree that even if a 1yo doesn't understand, they get the gist and 4yo definitely understands and can be praised without their sibling being described as spiteful.' But also agree it's not a big enough deal to say anything, esp if grandma rather than paid nanny, so just reinforce the message you want to give when she's gone.

[Lorelei76]

Ive never heard of a granny called a nanny. Nanna, yes. But how you can say we are using the wrong word?!

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Ive never heard of a granny called a nanny."

Not "a nanny", but Nanny with a capital letter makes sense. There's lots of threads about what grandmothers are called in different areas and Nanny is definitely one of the most common.

[Lorelei76]

Ah Gwen, thanks, I now do recall seeing it written Nanny in reference to a grandma. Very confusing on MN though.

[Icallbullshit3]

I called my Grandmother nan or nanny. Maybe it's a regional thing?

I wouldn't have used the word spiteful because to me it's the wrong word. I doubt a child of 20 months was being deliberately spiteful. So I'd have chosen my words more carefully around the children if they were listening which they obviously were.

Its surprising how much a 20 month old actually understands even if they struggle to verbalise that understanding.

Its entirely possible to validate that the four year old was hurt without labelling a young child as 'spiteful' it doesn't really help anyone.

As a one off I wouldn't do anything, but if it was a regular occurrence I'd probably address it but I'd try to be mindful of everyone's feelings.

Its entirely possible that the nanny doesn't view the word as you do. She may have a completely different perception.

Its just a very negative word for me. I don't like it and rarely use it.

If that makes me precious then so be it. I don't particularly think you are being unreasonable.

[TheRealKimmySchmidt63]

YANBU
you need to have a word with nan/gran - could have been explained much better - the 1 yo will not have been acting out of spite

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Sunshine he is now 5 years old but thanks for telling me my reaction was weird; that would totally have helped if I had a baby and was struggling

So when does deliberately trying to hurt someone become spiteful, then? Does he qualify yet? Because he still does it.

[WhisperingLoudly]

Spiteful is a horrid way to describe baby and I think most ordinary people would agree.

However you have split the crowd by inadvertently implying you have a FT paid childcare provider and therefore you can do no right in the eyes of some

[Pemba]

I didn't know you meant their grandmother, either, and I was going to suggest having strong words with your employee!

[mathanxiety]

I don't think you're being precious. I would wonder about the experience and perspective of someone I employed who thought a one year old was capable of spite. In your case this is harder to deal with as I assume the childcare is free, and you risk a family rift if you bring it up.

My 4yo definitely was listening and started adding to it, yes and she also did xyz...
You have a problem^^ and though it may raise eyebrows or even ruffle feathers, I suggest you find someone else to take care of your children.

Even if it's hard to find someone for short hours or odd hours, I would put it at the top of my list of important things to do.