AIBU to think that children and teenagers were not better behaved in the (mythical rose tinted) good old days?

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

If they were, why can we see badly behaved children and defiant teens throughout literature:

Emma - not a spoilt teenager who thought she knew it all?

Romeo and Juliet - the story of teenagers not affected by their hormones?

Agnes Grey - no unpleasant teens in the Bloomfield family?

Max and Moritz - good boys who always listened to their elders?

The lion and Albert - a poem about a well behaved boy doing as his parents said for fear of a clip around the ear?

Obviously literature isn't fact, but if the entitled brat/ naughty child/ selfish teen were really a recent phenomenon then the type wouldn't appear in literature going back centuries...

Or do people perhaps believe that children and adolescents were uniquely respectful and law abiding in their own youth or that of their children and things have deteriorated from the heady examples set for us by the teenage mods of the 1960s ... :o

Not denying aspects of childhood and society have changed over time of course, and that while some if the changes have been for the good others have not, but MN seems peppered with comments on how children / teens used to be, in one way or another, better (better behaved, more respectful) at some vague point in the past (due, it is often implied, to mollycoddling ).

AIBU to think this is just sloppy cliche and rose tinted nostalgia, and that kids have always been naughty (sometimes), teens have always been stroppy and defiant (sometimes - and almost certainly even before the term teenager came into use) and every single generation since the dawn of time has believed that society is going to the dogs, as proved by the dreadful behaviour of Young People These Days?

I'm not a teacher, but I can only go by the teenagers my DDs hang out with. They come from a wild variety of backgrounds, some have very seriously dysfunctional families and a lot of trouble in their lives - but they are all lovely. They are polite, look after each other, work hard at school and are generally a pleasure to be around. I'm sure there are some little shits around - there always have been - but I'm not at all sure behaviour is worse now than it was when I was a teenager (30-odd years ago).

Did I say my comment was any more valid than anyone else's??

OP was asking for opinions and I gave mine.... I'm sorry is that not allowed?? Is only your opinion allowed to be shared??

Clearly you only wanted posts that agree with your opinion... My mistake

I think there's alot more disrespect of adults. Alot more bad language e.g. use of the f and c word (I probably never said it to my twenties! and never the c word). Lots of lovely teenagers of course, but also quite a few rude, entitled ones.

user when I was a teenager I was still living in Holland, but I most certainly used the Dutch equivalent of those words frequently. As did my peers. We were all well-behaved, high-achieving teenagers. We didn't swear at people, that was a no go area, but I don't think that's any different for most teens these days.

I don't think being sweary = being entitled either - they're different things.

kids weren't brilliant in ye olde days,according to my ancestry research, two of my 1st cousins aged 12 14/ were sent to prison with their dad in 1861 for larceny and assault and sentenced to 7 months hard labour ! a great uncle aged 18 was due to be hanged for horse theft but that was commuted to deportation to diemans land [tasmania] ! life seems a lot better nowadays

I didn't say being sweary was the same as being entitled Pointy. Just two rather unpleasant separate traits i think. IMO if you use lots of abusive language that probably has its effect on you and other people. I'm not against the odd use of an Anglo Saxon word well-placed, far from it. But the casual swearing I think is regressive and unpleasant.

Behaviour at school has got worse: my mother worked at school from the 70s and by the 00s teens behaviour was much worse. Verbal abuse and violence and the parents kicking off too!
perhaps this is now improving?

When I was growing up I swore like a trooper ,stole from anyone I could ,shoplifted(but was never caught ) and bunked off school at every chance I could get.
I was brought up as a catholic and when I went to school it was a convent school . The nuns were very strict but I shrugged off anything they said to me.
This was 45 years ago. And I would be horrified to know that any of my own family behaved like me .

I was a teenager in the 70's and I don't see a lot of difference to how we were then and teenagers now. If anything they are better now. My own teens and their friends are lovely, polite, fun and hard working on the whole although I don't doubt their language is choice when I'm not around.

I have spent the past 35 years working with children up to the age of 16 and the behaviours, phases and attitudes haven t really changed much during that time but the attitudes of the adults around them has. Grown ups are much more enabling than they used to be.

Previously, there was someone that you could 'pick on', without being condemned by society

There could be something in this, we as a society don't tolerate prejudice as much as it was accepted back then. So any prejudice behaviour now is bad behaviour, whereas it wasn't back then.

However the 'youth' today are generally less well behaved/conforming of the other generation and authority. Some of this is because they aren't afraid (this isn't a bad thing) also because they are seemingly a 'me' generation self centred and inconsiderate and so lack respect of others (this is a bad thing)

My dad, born 1915, and his mates used to cycle to the coast and go looking for crane machines. The ones they targetted could be lifted and as my dad had the skinniest arms he would reach up the chute once it was tilted and steal pocket watches and packets of cigarettes.

This would be about 1930.

Surely it's the lack of parental control that is being lampooned in The Lion And Albert?

user well, I did use lots of abusive language and I've turned out pretty well, as did my peers. I don't think you can judge a person by their choice of language as a teen.

Entitlement is a different issue altogether, and i don't think it's something that is limited to teenagers. We live in a highly materialistic world and one that is very unequal in many places. Where do young people learn their values? From their parents. If teens are materialistic and entitled, look first to the parents and place the responsibility where it belongs. It really is up to parents to teach their children from a very young age that you can't get what you want without hard work, that the world is unfair and that no-one owes you a living. Some parents fail at this and always have.

Spottytop1 a bit of debate is not the same as "only wanting posts that agree with your opinion" - you are entitled to contribute a one line declaration if you want, and I am entitled to respond to it.

I dont think teenagers behaviour is any different, but adults response to this behaviour has changed.
Personally I feel that in the past parents would try to support whoever was attempting to challenge bad behaviour, now they are more likely to encourage the behaviour due to lack of interest. "The its not my problem mentality".

They haven't changed. If you look through literature teenagers were always troublesome. From 400 years ago
'I would there were no age between ten and three-and-twenty, or that youth would sleep out the rest; for there is nothing in the between but getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting.'
Shakespeare The Winters Tale

I think that we tend nowadays to be kinder to people we know, teenagers included.

However, the way people behave in public and towards people they don't know has deteriorated. Teenagers are not the worst for this though: people aged 40-60ish are.

Kids might not have been better so to speak, but they were more disciplined. no mollycoddling PC correctness cant touch them/smack them/punish them/.

since the 80's ive seen society go dowen the pan, as poster above says, its all ages. but its the kids that learn by example.

kids round here are awful, but their parents are just as bad, so antisocial and rude towards others its unbelievable, and they get away with it becausethey know how to play the system to their advantage, like the classic parent having goes at teachers for daring to tell their precious off.

the teens/youngish round here laugh and taunt the police and the police are bloody scared of them! so society goes downer and downer.......

I think all eras are looked back on with rose tinted glasses. I was a shit in the nineties and pregnant at 18 my dd can be rather trying right now. I expect she'll look back and think I'm all sorts of adjectives. However I now see what my Mum went through with me and my Grandmother reminds my Mum that she was a horror.
We are none of us perfect

My Granda blew his elderly neighbour out of her rocking chair with an improvised bomb in the 30s. bad behaviour is nothing new

I don't know, I think there are differences. I can see differences in children today at school compared to how we were when I was a school (I'm talking about 13 and under, I am sure teenagers have always been a ... challenge! )

I don't necessarily think the changes are bad, I think it's about a) a cultural shift in the adult-child relationship and b) an increase in the growing challenges that individual children face.

Children no longer seem to have an automatic respect for an adult because they are older and their teacher. Teachers talk more naturally to children, joke with them and won't hit them. I don't think those are bad things but they can result in an increase in 'poor' behaviour. Children are less likely to follow rules regarding dress codes, where and when to be etc because the consequence of physical punishment is not there. It's not that the children of the past were nicer or better but they were more afraid. Children nowadays know we can't really do anything to them!

Added to that there are now more children, or at least more children present in all settings, who have genuine difficulties with behaviour, boundaries or regulating emotions due to a disability.

oh that's made me laugh of shoes

Manic, absolutely agree.

Of shoes, shouldn't laugh, but i have visions of a flying granny.