SIL 1 or Me !

[LowellDrew]

I grew up an only child, whereas DH has 2 brothers who are both married with kids. We all live in London but different areas and we're fairly close for a family.

I would describe DH and I along with BIL & SIL 1 as middle class, not massively wealthy but well off enough, decent mortgage etc. Neither of my SIL's work but I do, so they're a lot closer as they spend a lot of time with just their DCs together

SIL and BIL 2 are very very wealthy, they have 1 DS (11)

DH and I have 1 DS (8)

SIL/BIL 1 have 4 DC from 11-2

And although they're closer & spend more time together and have DS' the same age. Every summer for the past 4 years, SIL/BIL 2 have invited DS along on their summer holiday, he's been to exotic locations that he'd never get to go with us.

This year they're going to Cancun and at MIL's barbecue today, SIL 2 kept asking about DS , what he likes to eat? How strong a swimmer he is ? SIL 1 then kept interrupting with unneeded comments like how her DS whose also 11, is a very strong swimmer, won't get tired and has never flown out of the U.K., whereas my DS gets 2 holidays every summer.

We left feeling pretty awkward, I thought that was the end until I received a text from SIL 1 asking me not to be so selfish, and that we should share holidays away amongst all the DCs with SIL/BIL 2

I think that's bang out of order.

I totally see why they take your son, by taking him they are not leaving three siblings out like they would be if they chose a child from the other family, also the family with your siblings are very very wealthy so can afford to holiday in these places whereas your son would not get the same holidays with you.

I would sil2 and talk to her before you reply

What is SIL 1's DS1's behaviour like?

We once took our DN on an expensive family trip because it was somewhere he'd always wanted to go. Never again! We alternated activities between what he wanted to do and what dd wanted to do. Every time it was dd's choice he sulked or refused to join in because he only wanted to do things he picked. It was awful. Not one word of thanks for anything either, I mean in a manners way, not a gratitude way.

I'd take other nieces/nephews away, but not him, not after that.

Maybe because SIL 2 sees more of DN she knows him well enough to know she doesn't WANT to take him...

SIL 2 could EASILY just take the eldest and not extend to all 4 of SIL 1s children by virtue of giving the reason for the exception as 'same age/gender' but for some reason is choosing not to/making excuses. Is SIL 1's boy "hard work" in any way? Or simply do the 2 11yo cousins not 'mix well' that could be a factor that sil 1 hasn't or won't see.

There are 2 factors here.

You towards SIL 1 "unnecessary remarks" YABU they are necessary - passive aggressive but necessary. She is trying, unsubtly to point out not that your son is favoured so much as hers is losing out. SIL 2 NOTICED she had to have done - that's her SISTER so you have to wonder why she's doing it. Is it spite? Or is nephew a PITA?

SIL 1 towards you. YANBU - this is a row she needs to have with her sister not you. Her sister is paying her sister is choosing. She does not get to go behind her back to you and try and backseat organise and set rules and tell her sister that you've agreed it's her sons turn.

If it's reached this point and it's been brought to you their SIL she has obviously had this row, possibly more than once with her DSis, has not liked her answer and is now trying to get you to take her side.

The result if a row should ensue will probably be neither nephew. I would take SIL 2 aside, and, not suggest your nephew go instead but ask if there's a reason and show texts from SIL 1 stressing you still want your boy to go and not lose out, but perhaps next year, unless there's a reason.

You might start a fightbut it looks like SIL 1 is spoiling for one. They need to have it out with each other not you.

SIL 2 IS being mean could make an exception and should take turns, but that's up to her not you and not SIL 1

I think you should answer her message by saying
'didn't realise how you were feeling, but unfortunately you will have to resolve this with SIL. She's very kind to invite my DS, but it is always her decision where they go / who they invite and I have nothing to do with the decision making. I'm going to step out and let you talk to her now.'

Then I'd let SIL know so she can be prepared....

Tricky situation! There's no way you should have received that message. She's messaging you because she is embarrassed to ask directly for her child to be taken on the holiday. I can understand her DS feeling left out, but she needs to talk to her SIL.

OP - surely you can see how this must appear to your SIL 1? SIL 2 and her dh invite your ds on holiday every year but not SIL 1's ds? Why? Why do they only invite your ds and not SIL 1's ds? I agree it was unfair to take it out on you, she should have approached SIL 2 directly to express her hurt. Really though, if it was the other way around wouldn't you feel hurt if your ds was excluded from a holiday year after year that your dn was being taken on, with no apparent reasoning behind the decision to only take the dn?

I'd mention it to SIL 2 and leave it at that.

I think it was really unfair to hold this conversation in front of sil 1.

My parents m take my kids away for the weekend a couple of times a year. In 3 years she has only taken my nephew once. Because dbro and sil won't allow him to sleep elsewhere. The once they were allowed was because dbro and sil wanted to go away.

I am not going to refuse to send my children because he won't allow it. However every time we are arranging it, I ask my parents if they want to invite my nephew first before they arrange it. I have also made clear on many occasions, directly to me dbro, that when he is happy for his son to go I will happily keep my kids at home.

Dbro has moaned that mum and dad takes my kids away and spend lots of time with them. It's never an argument as I point out that mum and dad have their son one day a week (all afternoon and to sleep) but doesn't have mine. That on a weekly basis she sees their child more and that he won't allow he son to go away. I won't stop my kids going because he won't allow it, not because mum only wants to take my kids. That usually shuts him up.

My point is that even though, my nephew doesn't go because his parents don't want him to, I make sure that it's offered.

Have you ever suggested to sil 2 that she takes sil 1 son.

Sil 2 should have tried to be more fair or explained to sil 1 why your son goes every year. But I think you could have done something too.

Imagine if it was your son was being left out all the time.

I think that the two only children need the opportunity to make close family bonds and its probably a thoughtful and important thing for them, something a family with 4 children never have to think about. I think it's lovely of you SIL to think in advance of how these young men will relate to each other as they grow up and it gives them only a small portion of the commonality of having siblings. So I think your other SIL should butt out of the "free holiday" complaints .

So your Sil with four DCs is expecting your other Sil to take her four kids away too?
She sounds deranged, especially complaining to you.

I don't get why the Bil's are getting away without any come back either...

It's a wonder that the 11yr old wouldn't rather have a school friend with him.

Wasn't very nice at all to discuss it in front of SIL1 & she's obviously upset that your 8yr old is preferred to her 11yr old.

I presume sil is only thinking of her oldest boy who is practically the same age and you would think a more suitable playmate for an 11 year old.
I can't believe ye sat there discussing all that lovely holiday and she there hearing it all. That was mean. There is always a huge thing here about favourites and rightly so. Its difficult to understand why that oldest child is never taken. There is meanness going on here and some under lying reason.. Its not your fault but you are being a bit unreasonable not to see it. Put yourself in her shoes. If it was me l wouldn't have said it as no point being invited if you have to beg but come on discussing all that in front of her face. I'm not surprised she is upset at your thoughtlessness.

I think they take DS because they don't get to see him as much compared to their other DNieces/Dnephews, who they see multiple times throughout the year, the two families go to the beach together, to the movies, to the park on a monthly basis whereas DS only tags along on those outings 3/4 times throughout the year with them, so he does get left out of a lot of things.

SIL 2 didn't ask those questions in front of the kids and I suppose I didn't think SIL 1 would mind because they're always discussing outings that they've taken with just their DCs together in front of me, showing me pictures etc and although it's bothered me a few times, I would never tell them to stop as it isn't done with mean intentions.

DNephew is a lovely child, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't want to take him.

Other DCs are 9 year old DNephew and 7/2 year old DNieces

You can easily see why your DS gets invited. Cousins for only children (I have one) are more like siblings. Your bil2 prob sees your DS as company for his DC and vice versa. Most family rooms only have 2kids spaces 3at most. SIL 1 4 kids would not fit into this dynamic very well. How could he take one sand not the others surely this would cause more resentment. By having 4 kids your SIL presumably weighed up the advantages of having a larger family with the increased financial commitment this would bring with some logistical difficulties over one or two. Ignore her and let your DS keep enjoying the company of his cousin on holiday after all your SIL1 kids have each other for company on holiday

Thanks for the clarification OP. I'm not sure the best way to approach this but it seems to me that your SIL 1 feels that the holidays away with your ds and SIL 2's family are a special experience that she feels her ds is missing out on. The fact that her ds sees SIL 2's family much more frequently throughout the year probably hasn't registered with her, holiday's just seem extra special don't they? It does appear that your SIL 2 is trying to be even handed in promoting family relationships - but as i said it might not seem that way to your SIL 1. Whatever the situation, it's certainly not your fault (or your SIL 2's fault for that matter). Maybe just gently mention what happened to SIL 2 and hope that she speaks to SIL 1 about it? Beyond that I wouldn't want to get involved - but I'm a coward!

It's a tricky one as it may suit better the situation for you all but it still seems unfair and I can see why sil1 is upset under the circumstances. Particularly as her two sons are similar age to your ds and dn, while I can see what you're saying re opportunities to see each other having an impact on their decision to invite your ds and neither of hers in her shoes I think I'd be seriously pissed off that yours seem to be chosen over either/both of mine for the opportunity. That said, it's for sil2 to explain the thinking behind it, not you, but you would be extremely unsympathetic to not acknowledge how difficult it must be for her to hear the plans being arranged etc under her nose and not be affected. I think you should respond in an understanding way while redirecting her to your other sil for answers.

The problem is her other son is 9 so if his big brother was invited why not him too especially as his cousin had been and he was a year younger than him and the the daughter is only a year younger than cousin so why not her too? They are trying to avoid opening up a big can of worms where they are end up having to take multiple kids on holiday which wouldn't end up being a holiday. I think they are making a very sensible decision.
If you decide to have 4 year children some things are logistically more difficult but that was their choice.
as the two boys are onlies it is lovely to try and strengthen their bond so they have each other. The other boy has his 3 siblings.

YANBU - SIL 1 should not call you selfish as it isn't your decision. I do feel sorry for SIL 1 Ds as he may not understand the logical reasons why he's being left out of a fun holiday.

If she was interrupting surely she was there when the convo was taking place? Otherwise, what was she interrupting? It isn't your problem, but you were both being unreasonable to discuss in front of her. Going on outings is different to Cancun.

"If you decide to have 4 year children some things are logistically more difficult but that was their choice."

Okay.... so you seem to feel rather judgemental about your SIL having had 4 children when you "restricted yourself" to one child, is that it? Who cares if SIL 1's eldest feels left out, it's his parents fault for having three more kids...! I say f**k that kid!

Really OP?

Rainbunny, what on earth are you talking about? That bit you quoted isn't me! I don't care how many kids they have, I love my DNephew and I would never want him to be left out, how dare you even say that!

Update: I phoned SIL 1, apologised for talking about it in front of her and said that invites had nothing to do with me, but would let SIL 2 know that they don't have to take DS, as she felt they were doing it out of a sense of duty instead of actually wanting him there.

I phoned SIL 2, didn't tell her about SIL 1's text as I don't want to cause any drama but told her that since DS loved going away with them, the other cousins certainly would as well and that we didn't expect an invite every year.

SIL 2 was pretty blasé , she agreed that the other kids probably would like to go but that DS was just a great fit and that they never get to see him, so it's nice to catch up on holiday.

Their's really nothing more that I can do except refuse future invites, which I'm not going to do. SIL 1 was pretty heated over the phone and I made it clear she was talking to the wrong person, so I'm certain that she's going to hash this out with SIL 2 soon.

I can see how it is unfair to discuss in front of SIL 1 - even if you don't see them in person often the logistics could be sorted over phone or email. But that is just something to think of going forward.

You are not the one doing the inviting so she should speak to SIL 2. However I would presume that your nephew prefers hanging out with your ds (and 3 kids could well result in one being excluded). Even if your two nephews are both 11 sometimes it is easier with a bit of a gap as they won't compete and your son may well idolise his older cousin a bit and be pleased to go along with plans.

However it may change once your nephews are a bit older as a 15 year old may prefer someone his own age once interested in girls etc.

Oh Sorry OP! I did read the previous post quickly and thought it was you, it sounded like it came from the OP's point of view. I was totally wrong, sorry again!

I don't think SIL 1 trying to tell SIL 2 who she should invite on her holidays will go down well with SIL 2 and her husband. It may just mean they avoid SIL1.
I'm not sure why the women are the ones getting so wound up here. It's the men who are siblings. In my experience people who have married in to families trying to tell family members how to behave with each other just causes arguments. If your left out nephew was an only child she might have a point but I suspect as he's one of 4 they don't want to feel they have to rotate taking kids on holiday and it turn in to a babysitting chore not a holiday where they take a friend for their son who happens to be a relative.

It really sounds like the SIL with the other DS (not the inviter) is trying to manipulate you into turning them down (sense of duty crap). It sounds like you handled ger OK.
Now deflect this crap. Do try to discuss the minutiae of holidays less, but essentially pass her straight over to the other SIL.
She wont she's working on you as she knows her son wont get an invite if she pisses off SIL with this sort of pressure.

Fwiw. It is shit of them. I don't think I'd be happy about my children thinking it was a fine and dandy way of carrying on.
Can you suggest another year the dreaded group holiday - somewhere less costly (though you said you all get on, maybe that wouldn't be hell on earth for you?).