To think reception classrooms shouldn't have 30 chairs with desks...

[SexDrugsProfiteroles]

Watched 'b is for book' on the bbc last night, and it made me think about early years practice.

Out of interest, how many of you have children in a reception class where they sit down at desks with books daily for work tasks?

A few years ago a class I worked in introduced writing books for reception, a big thing then but enjoyed very much in small groups by a number. Some hated it though! The room had lots of play areas, a few table for putting bits on, tables used for regular small group work (phonics/ counting activities with an adult). Large areas were forts/ book corners with cushions/ lego areas.....free play basically reigned. We'd call 5/6 at a time on a rota for focused work while the rest played.

More and more I see, particularly in areas of 'deprivation', a model where all of reception sit down to formal learning together (rather than just carpet time phonics/ stories etc) at their tables. Some of the children in the programme were not ready, as were many (most?) I've taught. Frankly it looked like a miserable start to reading for many. I know my own little boy would be unlikely to have absorbed anything said to him as a just 4 yr old in reception, let alone actually learn in a class size group.

We used to provide opportunities for able/ advanced pupils to write and extend learning, but we certainly had more play. It does make me wonder how some of these children will be with creative writing later on when you look at the methodical approach to their learning early on and the sheer relentlessness of intervention for the more immature pupils.

Balls to four year olds doing any kind of formal 'learning'. Sweden for example has one of the highest literacy rates across Europe and their reading and writing formally doesn't start til 7. I've got a summer baby and having worked in reception classes as a TA, she'll be skipping it. I've seen too many bewildered, runny nosed younger ones having to 'cross their legs on the mat' and fill out work sheets etc etc. Balls, I say. She'll be going to plenty of clubs for social time and I'll cover the basics at home.

I suspect that whilst your ideas might suit some of the children better it would make it a lot worse for others

Indeed. Essentially, the current vogue is that it's unacceptable to set up early years education to suit those who find "learning through play" chaotic and prefer a more structured approach because others (possibly the majority) would struggle with that. However, it is completely acceptable to dismiss the structure and ostracise those who would prefer it, despite the fact that these children do not respond well to learning through play.

It's important that there is a diversity of schooling methods available, and people should be able to choose what is appropriate for their child, rather than condemning those that would not suit an individual as "saddening" or "outdated", purely because they're not currently in fashion.

Balls to four year olds doing any sort of formal learning

And what about those children who thrive in that situation? You can't say "children must learn through play, it's better for them" and totally ignore those for whom it isn't better?

There are no desks or chairs in the Reception classes at the DTs school. They don't have books or desks and chairs until year 1.
The play provision is very free flow from inside to outside and even into the other reception class rooms. They come together for phonics/group work but the rest is child led learning. It's an over subscribed outstanding school but that's not why I love it. I love it because the teachers all care about the kids and the learning processes.

Jacques There is a hell of a lot of work involved in catering for every child's needs, it's almost impossible. I remember a child who could read but she was so stressed by the small group classes, she was in tears (maybe it came from being pressured at home, I was a supply).

You're right though many children like formality, the 'sitting cross legged all the time' thing is not very good for them IMO.

Abernathy- I could read at 2, write at 3. Should I have been denied further learning until all my classmates had finished playing at 7?
It would be lovely if there were schools of all types for children parents of all types. But it isn't possible in most areas, and there would still be parents that send their child to whichever school was most convenient for them, regardless of their child's needs or preferences.
We are fortunate that we can choose from a wider field which school we want, and we appreciate that, and encourage our children to get all they can from their opportunities.

It is a fallacy to separate the concepts of learning and playing. For young children they are the same thing - they learn through their play.
In fact there is evidence which suggests that adult learning is also highly effective when done through playing and doing.

You send your children to school too young, that's the real problem here.

At the local primary, they have a mix - a classroom with desks around the outside and a carpeted area in the middle with a good chunk of the day spent outside it in the foundation unit with the nursery kids. Meets the need to have a quiet environment for more formal learning as well as socialising and getting their wriggles out.

I'm in N Ireland, so it's straight into P1 at the age of 4, there is no reception. (well, there is in a few schools, but it's for 3-4 year olds, not school age children). I assumed reception was the equivalent of our P1 but it sounds totally different. I've never heard of not having their own desk to sit at, or being allowed to play at whatever they want, that's what they do at preschool. In P1 it is learning through play, but in a more formal way where they have particular activities to do. And then there are worksheets etc for learning to write and for basic maths.

I agree with perspicacia and with user1467 I think that schools should be far less formal and start later as they do in Europe . Montessori is ideal IMO.

Yup agree. It's not a case if playing until the "real" learning starts! You can learn to read and write through play. Nothing to stop a child whose learnt young writing a novel at the writing table in reception, or reading a book in the boom corner! Followimg their own interests and creativity is good for a bright child!

But Montessori wouldn't work for every child. Nor is starting school when we do too early for every child.

I am so, so glad we found a school that has catered to each child as an individual.

DD would have absolutely HATED not having any time to sit and have formal learning.

Yes there is, movingon-, the utter chaos and noise levels in most free-flow schools!

It's difficult to compare school starting age across Europe when (a) they have far more logical writing systems than we do, particularly the much vaunted Finns and Swedes, which can be grasped in a single year, and (b) it's often a matter of terminology anyway, when eg French 3yos can be learning in straight rows at "maternelle" while an English 5yo is digging for worms with a stick at "school".

I remember helping in a Reception class about a decade ago and they spent most of the day at their desks and didn't get to choose what they did. I had to keep a little four year old girl in at playtime to practice writing the letter F because she got it wrong in class. That broke my heart a little. Thanks fuck my DD is in Finland and still just plays at five years old.

There is a big difference between chaos and busy activity. That is why I tell people viewing potential schools to give it a moment when they first walk into a school, pause, focus on one or two children and watch them. If it still looks like chaos then there maybe a problem, but it usually quickly resolves itself into lots of busy, purposeful activity with high levels of concentration.
The sounds also tends to settle into a busy buzz, rather than sheer noisiness.

I spent day in a Montessori school and of course Jaques no school is right for every child, but they had it all so organised for the children, they had to collect their activities, play with them and replace them properly, set their tables for lunch , cook etc. It was for 3 and 4 yr. olds who were so involved in their 'play' there was no chaos or loud noise it was lovely!

I could read at 2, write at 3. Should I have been denied further learning until all my classmates had finished playing at 7?

We met the year one teacher today so we can prepare for the few changes that it will bring to the school day. A morning playtime instead of free play (obviously) and they finish the day 5 mins after the reception class.

She told us that they have recently changed their classroom so it is like reception with different areas for learning and more play. As they get further into the year it will become more like year two and the rest of the school.

"They are expected to all be able to read and write and maths at a basic level by the end of reception."

Does this apply even if some children in the group are 25% older than some of the others?? That surely can't be right?

Yup, sadly our government give not a shit about individual children. If a child hasn't achieved the early learning goal by July the first then the teacher and the school has failed. It doesn't matter if they are still only 4, or their dad just died or their parents are illiterate, or they only just arrived in the country and don't speak the language.

When DS2 started primary he was one of seven (two boys, five girls) that were moved up to a year 1 class due a large reception intake. Aged only 4. The class had desks and chairs etc and the other children were a year older/ahead. We were told the reception littlies would regularly access reception facilities and classroom, but in reality, this happened infrequently.
Luckily DS2 had been at nursery for years, had an older sibling and was a confident child. He wasn't fazed, did well and has just received great SATS results. Despite my initial reservations, the more formal set up didn't do him any harm at all, but this may not be the case for all children.

Sweden for example has one of the highest literacy rates across Europe and their reading and writing formally doesn't start til 7.

Did you mean Sweden or Finland? Sweden have the fastest declining literacy rates in Europe according to the OECD and are 13 places below the UK in international testing.

That's probably not something we want to emulate however much Gove might have wanted to follow their free school system.

I'm not sure the issues in B is for Book had much to do with the children not being ready. I'm not sure it was an accurate snapshot of what happens in that classroom either. Difficult to tell what a typical day in it actually looks like.