AIBU to just not understand why child maintenance works the way it does??

[Oreosaretasty]

I just don't get it. why do so many people get away with not paying? Especially the ones who pay and still see their kids? While I do not suggest withholding contact unless they pay (Wouldn't necessarily flame you for it either, but I wouldn't suggest it and can see arguments for and against...) Why is it so allowed and wide spread? What is the problem? AIBU to not understand it?
My main stance is, If I had a kid (Unfortunately I don't yet) and decided one day to not pay for the roof over their head, not pay for their food,school uniforms, travel/whatever else kids need. How long do you think social services would take to remove said kid...?
Not very long I'm betting.... So
I just cannot comprehend it!
AIBU to think people shouldn't get away with this??

Wow these amounts of arrears are pretty bloody staggering! :(
Some of you mention being on benefits etc so you're obviously on low incomes (Sorry to pry) A few hundred a month in maintenance would make the world of difference and mean you don't struggle quite so much, if at all, why wouldn't you want to do that for your child? Ridiculousness...

My DD's father left when she was a year old. I earn more than him, but still struggle to pay for her to be in full time childcare on my one salary - while also paying my mortgage and bills...etc.

This is where I struggle with CM. You say he has your DD 3 nights and you have him 4. So theoretically you have your DD one night more than your ex does. Does having your DD an extra 4 nights a month cost you more than £50 pm? I'm asking the question as if you were living in an ideal world and he was picking up/ dropping off etc. ( I would tell him to fuck off with your current arrangement btw)

What has your mortgage got to do with what he pays you? He has a mortgage as well no doubt so has to pay for somewhere to live? It is your decision to live where you are living so Surely if you can't afford your mortgage you need to move to somewhere else you can afford? Same with bills really - they are your bills not your ex's - he doesn't have any say in them - he can't say turn that heating down or your not going to x tonight because I don't have money so why would he have to pay for your bills - these are choices you have made. I don't get what they have to do with CM. Your house bills, electricity/gas/phone etc. will be the same even if your DD isn't there, your food bills would be much the same unless your DD eats like a horse - other things like clothes/activities etc. for your DD should be split.

My incredibly wealthy ex pays me less than £300 a month and that is begrudgingly. He never has overnight ( teenager) .

I agree. I also think the rates are farcical, and in the case of nrp's not doing 50% of the parenting they should have to pay an amount equivalent to a nanny to the rp for doing their share of the child raising

Peggy you clearly have no idea , do you have children? An extra bedroom for the child increases the mortgage and of course dc use extra electricity and food. Also you would put the heating on and use gas for s child when you wouldn't bother for yourself.

Lots of problems with child maintenance /access.

If ex feels ill hungover he can just call up and announce he's not coming. I have to organise alternative childcare or rearrange my plans. If I'm too ill then I have to still soldier on/rearrange things/organise childcare.

I think that NRP should be paying some childcare costs so that RP can work.

Completely agree. Apologies in advance for generalisations but the father fails to pay or under pays and gets mildly tutted at. If the mother fails to spend the money to ensure the children have what they need she is a dreadful mother and could see her children go into care.
A friend of mine has separated from her ds's dad. Last summer he offered to buy all the stationery he needed for the new school year. My friend was of course responsible for clothes, shoes, trainers, transport. Does that sound even?

I think there should be a complete overhaul of the entire system that saw 50/50 as a starting point - both financially and in terms of overnights. This would take the responsibility away from one parent to cover all expenses and would mean that both parents were still equally responsible for their child(ren).. This would also mean that for both parties there is no financial or emotion abuse, and the children will be better off, and not stuck in the middle. In cases where it genuinely wasn't possible, then obviously a financial settlement would have to be arranged.

Ex DH left me for OW who had 2DC, therefore he paid me less, even though I knew their father paid over and above what he needed to
As time went on he never increased his payments there was plenty of evidence he was undeclaring (the Porsche and multiple expensive holidays were only a start)
I asked for an increase at which point he 'decided' to be a full time student dropped payments to a fiver and set up some kind of consultancy business with friends which apparently never made a profit
My DC are now grown up and don't have the best relationship with him, not from anything I said in fact I was quite careful - but they saw enough for themselves
DD met up with him a while ago and he tried to excuse himself, "I know I've not been as good a father as I could have been" cue it's ok type response, she agreed with him and said "no you haven't" and proceeded to tell him why - not just financial
We have a fab relationship but I am still very poor paying off debts and large mortgage accrued when they were younger - a fair maintenance system would have really helped me

The reason IMO comes down to the fact that the country is run by men, predominantly.

This.

I would suggest a system with a single male tax, where every male who does not financially support children or a female partner, has to pay extra ... about the amount that he earns more than women.

But that will never happen. Because the country is ruled by men, and the fact that men earn more for the same job (or land disproportionately in higher earning jobs) to them is a featuer, not a bug.

... and then all that tax money (higher tax for higher earners, of course!) would be used to pay all single mothers a living wage for raising their children. Because that is work, and they do it for the whole country, which will get more tax payers through that work.

Unfortunately vestal you'd need to overhaul public opinion to do that. It's not just men who judge single mothers. Let's face it, a single mum on benefits as a sahp is seen as a scrounger, or if they work for a low wage then they are scrounging tax credits. Have a well paid career and they clearly don't want to spend time with dc. At best they are just seen as doing their duty. After all, every twat whose dp works away or works long hours seems to think they have personal experience of being a single parent. Whereas the man who pays legal minimum and has dc at weekends is a great dad, and if he does his actual duty, paying well above legal minimum and doing his share of the parenting, he is hailed as the second coming.

You post on here about how tired you are on maternity leave/ sahp/ pt work with a resident father, and people will trip over themselves to agree how hard it is. Do the same as a single mum and you'd be slated for sitting about all day on 'my hard earned taxes'. And that isn't overwhelmingly men, it's other women.

I do realise some single parents are men, but let's not pretend public opinion of single rp dads is remotely the same.

I can feel my anger rising reading this thread Feel I need to add to my post about my shit of an ex.

I asked him to buy my son some clothes (I said about £100 would do) Bear in mind he has paid NO maintenance for four years, no birthday or Christmas presents and no other clothes. The weekend he was supposed to go down for this shopping trip was cancelled last minute and as DS really needed trainers due to holes in his, I bought them plus a Tshirt (total £100) thinking that ex would buy more stuff. He still needs joggers and more tshirts.

Oh no, I get a text making out I'm in the wrong for buying this stuff and apparently he now 'doesn't need' to buy the stuff and '£100 wouldn't have bought everything he needed anyway' So rather than just buying some stuff, he bought nothing. Fucking tight wad.

It could be fixed. CM could be collected via tax (self assessment or PAYE code) and taken just as seriously as tax, but the will isn't there. Aye has probably nailed the reason.

My exh does the same. If the culture and system changed, we could move onto those weasels next. HMRC are far better at making 'lifestyle' judgements than CSA or CMS are.

I would be interested to see what payment rates were like when maintenance was taken in to account when calculating benefits. Absent parents know that their DC will have less money obviously but in the past the set up was completely different.

The single male tax idea, would that mean any man who chooses never to live with a woman nor have DC would be liable. If so that is ludicrous.

Yes Queen

Actually they were footie boots to be precise and they were £85 down from £110 (all because they had Messi on the side) and £15 for a Tshirt.

My reaction was the same as yours but I had said he could have £100 to spend and that's how he chose to spend it.

For those saying loss of driving license and prison should be an option as a punishment for not paying - they already are!

They can, appoint baliffs to seize goods to be sold, put a charge against their property, force the sale of a property or other asset, take away their driving license or go to court with the aim of a prison sentence.

In reality they say they don't want to make anyone homeless, or remove the place the non-payer takes the child for visits so they won't force a sale of the house, they won't limit their employment opportunities so won't remove the driving license and I don't think anyone ever has been sent to prison for it.

The system is a farce and part of the reason that it's not something people protest about is that it is, imo, socially acceptable not to pay child maintenance. Make a comment or two about 'her' (usually) not letting you see the kids and it's ok (even if you never ask/plan), comment about 'her' spending the money on clothes/makeup/nightsout and it's ok and the second 'she' gets a new man who works/shares the bills then it's fair game. Until people, especially other women who get into relationships with non-payers, start shaming them into it and telling them that it's not acceptable it won't change.

The amount of women who crib about the maintance men pay to their ex is astounding. My ex's new wife is a classic example. She tries every year to have his amount reassessed. She was livid when I refused to reduce it when they first married because they wanted to be able to afford a child - I had to feed/clothe/house the girls and I had to take that into account when deciding if I could afford a child with my new partner so why shouldn't he?! She still complains to this day that he pays "too much" (£42 a week for 2 children...) given my DH's wage.

Until it's something that makes you a social pariah, like neglecting your child if you are a resident parent, it won't change imo.

Also unless you cannot include maintenance in benefit calculations until you have a 100% system in place - which is never.

When I was a child my father was legally obliged to pay my grandparents £64 a week. When my grandfather was made redundant that £64 a week was taken into account for benefits and no account was made for the fact that my father never paid a single penny. So all that happens is that my grandparents were £64 a week down before they even started.

I'd put my house on the fact there were far, far more kids in my position then than there are kids in houses where the resident parent is getting hundreds and hundreds of pounds a week in maintenance on top of benefits now.

My ex hasn't paid a penny since we split either. About 2-3 yrs now. CMS chase him, then he'll 'lose' his job or/and disappear. Right now no one knows where he is but they've assured me they will be seizing assets if/when they track him down. They've told me that if he gets a new job or signs on then he will be traced (unless cash in hand obviously). What fucks me off the most is that he only has to pay about a fiver a week, you can imagine how much I spend on our child!! I don't give a shit about the money, I give a shit about the absolute insult to our wonderful child that he will not be a father, that he cannot so much as phone once a week to keep in touch (he never ever calls), that he can spend money on women and cars and hobbies but can't put the occasional £20 in the post - not even for birthdays and christmas - how the fuck do I explain that to my child, it's not 'personal', his dad is just a prick, but to my son it will feel personal, it will feel like the most hurtful rejection ever and there is NOTHING I can do about it. Money means nothing, yes it's annoying/frustrating/piss taking .... but in the grand scheme of things it's the lesser of evils he's put my son through.