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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder why the UK doesn't have a culture of saving for kids' University?

323 replies

windygallows · 05/07/2016 21:15

I'm originally from North America where 'saving for College/University' is a big part of the culture, in fact it's quite normal for parents to take a college fund out just after baby is born. And understandably - University is really expensive in the US eg (tuition + living expenses of $30,000 pa).

I've had both my children in the UK (have lived here for 20 years) and do my best to put a bit of money into a college fund every month, even if its a stretch. When I mentioned this to a few friends they looked at me with amusement and asked 'why?' I've casually asked around if others are saving for college - some have put money aside but haven't specifically said it's for higher education. I haven't pried, just asked a few people so don't have a full picture.

However I'm finding it surprising that this isn't more of a concern for parents. In the UK University isn't 'free' anymore (eg. through grants), tuition is very pricey now, grants are rarely available, and student loans are shrinking. But it just seems like this hasn't been absorbed by many parents. Or maybe it has and I just don't know!

Before flaming me - I'm aware not everyone can afford to put money/savings away and I'm also aware that not everyone can or wants to go to University, so no need to debate that. I'm just questioning the seeming obliviousness to the dramatic change in the cost of University here.

AIBU?

OP posts:
BackforGood · 06/07/2016 22:34

Alasalas2 People can save for things without prioritising a 'university fund'.
We have a ds at university - he's managing fine without 'a fund'. For us, I'm glad we put money into going on holiday, into letting them have extra curricular activities, and into over paying the mortgage. We have been able to save for things but this question was about having a fund for university. Some people however don't have £1 spare - let alone £1 per child per week (not that £52 a year would make much of a dent in the costs)

meddie · 06/07/2016 22:35

£1 a week only amounts to 900 odd quid. what use is that going to be in 18 years time.

Cel982 · 06/07/2016 22:36

Although, and correct me if I'm wrong, a junior doctor in the UK can't make certain diagnoses or decisions, those have to be done by a consultant? There's no such division in the US, a fully qualified doctor is a fully qualified doctor no matter how much experience they have (or don't have). Which would make a difference, I'm sure.

That's not true. Newly-qualified doctors in the US spend a year as an intern and then several years as a resident, before they become an attending physician/surgeon, i.e. a fully-qualified, independent practitioner. The pathway is a bit shorter than in the UK, but from what people who have experienced both systems say this just leads to fully-qualified doctors who are a bit less experienced than their UK counterparts.

ApocalypseSlough · 06/07/2016 22:47

christmas
even if I have half it will be better than nothing!!
Not necessarily. £10,000/ child would buy an awful lot of enrichment activities- I'd rather spend the money on visits, sports, musical tuition extra books, theatre trips etc.

User100 · 06/07/2016 22:48

I can't believe reading this how many parents don't understand the system. You don't have to pay fees up front - even if you can afford to you are better taking the loan and putting the money into a savings account because the terms of the loan are so favourable it's hardly a loan at all. That's why we don't save for uni in the UK.
In short it isn't really true to say you have to pay £9000/year to go to uni.

Saracen · 06/07/2016 22:49

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread.

I don't know whether anyone has mentioned that for many careers, university is less essential in the UK than in the USA. I understand that these days in the US, for many jobs employers ridiculously demand an undergraduate degree of all applicants, even when the job does not actually require specialist knowledge.

That practice is less common here, where for many more jobs a degree is truly optional and may even be less desirable to employers than work experience.

Needfinsnow · 06/07/2016 22:54

I'm a single mum, earning minimum wage in a high living cost place. I save the £20 child benefit she gets a week, £10 goes into her future fund account and £10 goes into an account for things like school shoes etc. Since she was born her "future" account has nearly £3000, her savings account has any cash gifts she's ever been given (nearly £4000) and she has £800 of premium bonds. As much as I could do with the extra money, this is my way of saving for her future /uni costs as there is no way I could afford it on my own! (She has way more money in savings than I do!!)

Psycobabble · 06/07/2016 23:23

i agree user100
I said Similair up thread .

I just don't think it should be completely dismissed that it may not always be the best option financially speaking to pay the fees upfront . there will be many people who never earn above the threshold to even start paying it off and before anyone insults anyone by claiming that's rubbish I know many many people on less that 21k a year and I assume that in time with inflation that threshold will increase for new loans taken out .

And I say this as someone with minimal student loan because I didn't like the thought of owing money so worked to pay fees, so I do get it .

Has anyone thought of what happens if 2 years in and 18k later they drop out ?? It does happen !!!

NinjaLeprechaun · 06/07/2016 23:32

"And if true, you think that is bad?"
Not bad, different. They're not synonyms.

"A fully qualified Dr in the USA may have done a woolly crappy degree, only done 4 years in medical school and then let loose."
A pre-med undergrad degree would mostly be used to gain the knowledge needed to pass the medical school entrance exam. Because high school level science classes, no matter how good the school is, aren't going to be taught at a high enough level.
After med school, of course, they're still not going to be let loose fully qualified without another several years of supervised on the job training.

"They've done less time in a medical training programme than ours do."
4 years in medical school plus at least 3 to 5 years of residency.
I know I'm not good at math, but that's not less than the "5 to 8 years" the interwebs tells me it takes to become a GP in the UK.

Absolutely all other considerations aside, even with the extra 4 or 5 years of an undergraduate degree, it's disconcerting the way my doctors keep getting younger and younger every year. Wink

NewBallsPlease00 · 06/07/2016 23:38

Personally/ because I believe that if they want to go and work their hardest they will expect to self fund rather than just go along with idea
From a financial perspective I'm a high earner but after mortgage, childcare, pension there is very little left let alone saving
Many people query first world problems but if you work ft and have kids it's like having 3 mortgages...

springwaters · 06/07/2016 23:38

£1 a week for 52 weeks x 18 equates to £936, so not sure what you mean Alas?

Which would cover the their deposit and 1st term down payment when moving into uni owned accommodation?

It was at least £600 upfront for both of mine. So saving for it much be a good thing? It has to be paid before they get a grant or loan - they are totally reliant on parents to pay.

NinjaLeprechaun · 06/07/2016 23:39

Crosspost, Cel - I don't think interns or residents are considered "fully qualified" though. It's still considered part of their education, even if they're being paid for it.

springwaters · 06/07/2016 23:40

I assumed that may children could get a student loan. I was rather surprised when I found out that based on my income they couldn't. I only found out when my 1st child applied.

mathanxiety · 06/07/2016 23:46

senua Tue 05-Jul-16 21:41:13
"They are adults making their own choices about their lives. They decided to go to University so it was their financial decision. They got loans and part-time jobs and still came out with 2:1s. They seem more financially savvy than a lot of their friends who were living off the Bank of Mum&Dad.
We didn't cut them off without a bean, obviously - we gave them bits of money or did a Big Shop at the beginning of term but there was no savings fund to call on.
I'm guessing that most DC will spend whatever is put their way so that's a good reason not to have too big a pot!"

windygallows Tue 05-Jul-16 21:45:01
"senua - Your POV is so different than north america --- I think culturally people here are seen to be 'adults' much younger in the UK, hence the norm leaving school and working at 16.
Perhaps we infantalize teenagers there but I think it's quite unusual to have an american parent say 'my child is now an adult - off to College, you sort out all the money yourself."

I am in the US, with five DCs, all of whom are heading to university or have already got there or have graduated.
I am much closer to Senua's pov here, thanks to the fact that there is no way on earth, with five children and an ordinary middle class income, that I could save much to cushion any of them financially through university.

Like Senua, I did a shop for bedding, plastic storage boxes, stationery, toiletries, detergent, with each student before packing them off.

Most American students rely on a combination of financial aid and parents taking out loans to pay for college. They also work their way through university.

If a child takes out government backed loans as part of a financial aid package, the lender requires that student and not the parents sign on the dotted line, and that student will be responsible for repayment upon graduation (unlike the UK, no matter how little a student makes they are liable for repayment).

Of course some parents will help with repayments, but students who qualify for those government loans have parents who are unlikely to be able to help much.

My DCs are probably a lot more savvy than many of their peers thanks to our straitened circumstances, the fact that they knew they would need to support themselves through university and did, and worked from their early teens at babysitting, odd jobs, etc. (American teens in general tend to have a lot more casual work experience than UK teens do).

They all took out government loans heading off to university. DD1 paid off one of her loans before she graduated.

University tuition and room and board rates have risen well beyond inflation over the last twenty years in the US. Many people who do not qualify for fantastic financial aid (basically a partial or even full university write off of tuition and room and board that universities can afford thanks to huge endowments) or government loans are finding it hard to afford university - hence the topic is a hot political one.

You would have to have significant disposable income to make any sort of meaningful saving, and be able to pay an accountant to hide it from financial aid offices in whatever university your children attended. Your student's financial aid package could well be reduced if they get a whiff of money in the mattress.

And my point is - while a college fund may well make sense in the UK where fees are relatively negligible, a college fund may actually be a thing of the past in the US.

DaisyBooMum · 06/07/2016 23:49

I think it's partly because graduates have become parents later and are out of touch with the new system

I am a younger parent (first child at 25) and most of my 6y old's friends parents are aged 39-48. So completely out of touch

My DH and I had our parents pay the £1,300 p a fees. Both our parents paid our living costs. We both got jobs, had savings & had student loan for living.

We're currently saving £400 pcm for our 3 children. Total per child will be £27k once they're 18. Junior isa no stocks and shares.

As my generation (born 80s, at uni in 2000s) becomes parents this culture will shift I think

springwaters · 06/07/2016 23:49

On a £60,000 joint income (so 2 teachers or more or less 2 people at national average wage) your child would be eligible for:

£3,955 Maintenance Loan to pay living costs

thats it. It was a shock to us. I assumed that they were eligible to get a LOAN not grant for a the full living costs

£3,955 isn't even the hall costs for 1 year.

windygallows · 06/07/2016 23:57

I really doubt that student loans will be so available upfront in future. The system isn't working as so many students default and like some woke mention on this thread really think of it as free money. next.ft.com/content/55f4a6f6-3eab-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a

www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2016/06/how-are-graduates-who-move-abroad-getting-away-not-paying-their-student

OP posts:
Greenyogagirl · 07/07/2016 00:02

You get a student loan and you pay back a small amount when you're earning over a certain amount. I'd rather wait and see if ds wants to go uni and then see if he earns over that amount after uni than scrimp and save to pay for it.
I do however put money into a trust fund for him.

mathanxiety · 07/07/2016 00:09

Robins:
I didn't know it was part of US culture in general to save, though? My understanding was it's quite a middle class type of thing - people I know who didn't have family money went to community colleges and studied part time, or went for scholarships. The Ivy League places have some very big scholarships - I know someone who could never possibly have gone to university who went through her entire time with everything paid for on one of those.

ExH has a friend who dropped his DD off to Harvard about fifteen years ago and while chatting with other parents realised he was the only one paying the full whack. There were some whose children were attending for a few hundred dollars per year.

People who get stuck in the middle - unable to save much, facing higher tuition/room and board bills than they are able to afford, living in houses that are quite modest, driving ten+ year old cars, in the US are in the majority.

Many students attend community college for a few years of a degree and then transfer. Most people who do this are attending not very selective universities. You would not be able to transfer to Yale from a community college, or complete a few years of Harvard coursework between your first and fourth years.

Many people just go to a community college and get an associates degree. These people might not have qualified for university admission anyway.

There are scholarships and also financial aid. The two are different.

Scholarships are usually merit based. You can get a scholarship to go anywhere - there are criteria to be met, essays to write; you have to sell your case to a committee.
Financial aid is need based. Many universities (far more than just the Ivy League) offer up to 100% of the cost of attendance based on demonstrated need. Private and state schools alike offer excellent financial aid packages.

Universities offer need-blind admission - they admit students based on academic results and other criteria and then will find a way to help you afford attendance (tuition plus room and board plus sundries like books and travel to and from home). The upper income cutoff for financial aid is $150K iirc, with students in the lowest brackets of income qualifying for the most financial aid and those approaching $150K getting the least.

There are government backed loans for students whose families' income falls under a certain (low) threshold.

mathanxiety · 07/07/2016 00:16

Greenyogagirl, in the US, students do a 'loan counselling' interview when they take out loans that are to be repaid upon graduation (i.e. government loans). How much they will owe upon graduation and the terms of repayment are explained. It behoves American students to get a good enough job to afford repayments.

Any other loans that are taken out (private loans) are payable beginning the month after the loans are taken out. Many parents take out these loans, or remortgage their home, bundle credit card debt, etc.

I don't see much mollycoddling of American students at all - in fact I think the UK approach where you only owe the money back of you earn above a certain threshold makes no sense from a banking pov or from the pov of asking people to become adults and gain financial stability.

mathanxiety · 07/07/2016 00:33

"A fully qualified Dr in the USA may have done a woolly crappy degree, only done 4 years in medical school and then let loose."

There is a misapprehension that American degrees are 'woolly', perhaps arising from the fact that there are lots of core course requirements associated with them on top of requirements for your major.

What US universities seek to do is equip graduates with a high level of general education across many academic disciplines as well as a specialised knowledge of the major chosen.

So while DD1's friend 'did Chinese' in university she also did physics, calculus III, chemistry, biology, history, philosophy, psychology, Spanish and economics. DD1 has a degree in economics and along the way studied physics, philosophy, calc III, psychology, biology, chemistry, Persian, fine arts (minor in this subject) and several other subjects. The result is that DD1 could have gone to medical school if she hadn't been completely squeamish. Or law school (again, too squeamish), or veterinary school, pharmacy, etc., etc. Her job is directly related to her major.

You have to be very much a high flier to get into an American medical school.

lljkk · 07/07/2016 00:34

Maybe the loan terms will become less generous... but not soon.

Until the early 1990s, not only were there no tuition fees, but students were given a grant to live on (£3k?/yr? yes really, students were paid to be students!). To go from that system which applied to people now not yet 50yo (but with teen kids now) to an American style claws-out-chasing-you-forever loan system is going to take at least several more decades.

merrymouse · 07/07/2016 00:52

I got the impression (from TV and films) that in the US there are some (Ivy League? Private?) universities that are inaccessible if your parents haven't 'saved for college' and you don't have some kind of scholarship or bursary.

In the UK

merrymouse · 07/07/2016 00:53

in the uk

LowDudgeon · 07/07/2016 00:58

I believe average student debt here is now considerably higher than it is in the US?

AND Hillary Clinton is proposing (following Bernie Sanders' campaign) that tuition should be free there for students whose parents earn under $120k (approx £80k)

The world has gone mad Shock