AIBU to wonder why the UK doesn't have a culture of saving for kids' University?

[windygallows]

I'm originally from North America where 'saving for College/University' is a big part of the culture, in fact it's quite normal for parents to take a college fund out just after baby is born. And understandably - University is really expensive in the US eg (tuition + living expenses of $30,000 pa).

I've had both my children in the UK (have lived here for 20 years) and do my best to put a bit of money into a college fund every month, even if its a stretch. When I mentioned this to a few friends they looked at me with amusement and asked 'why?' I've casually asked around if others are saving for college - some have put money aside but haven't specifically said it's for higher education. I haven't pried, just asked a few people so don't have a full picture.

However I'm finding it surprising that this isn't more of a concern for parents. In the UK University isn't 'free' anymore (eg. through grants), tuition is very pricey now, grants are rarely available, and student loans are shrinking. But it just seems like this hasn't been absorbed by many parents. Or maybe it has and I just don't know!

Before flaming me - I'm aware not everyone can afford to put money/savings away and I'm also aware that not everyone can or wants to go to University, so no need to debate that. I'm just questioning the seeming obliviousness to the dramatic change in the cost of University here.

AIBU?

Three reasons in my family. One that my parents couldn't afford it. Two, my parents didn't go to uni and didn't think we'd go, and Three, my mum thinks that as soon as we're 18 we should stand on our own two feet with no parental help. Which hasn't been easy but it's the way it is in my family. Just glad I had enough loan to live on.

I am also an American with 20+ yrs of living in UK & finding much of what OP says weird. Her own culture specific, too (which is easy, big country). Plus, the student loan situation in UK is so generous compared to US situation. I never worry about UK student loans.

My dad finished high school in 1960 & some of his friends were instantly kicked out & told by their parents to get on with life. No ongoing support at all, no aiming for college. My dad did community college & PT jobs to pay his way to university, had a scholarship for law school (similar to his best friends now all in their 70s). Even now many Americans simply can't afford to save for college. My best friend from high school didn't even get a chance to buy her own home until she was 40, she couldn't save for college, too. I am 48 & have friends whose kids didn't/won't go. College debt is becoming a huge issue in USA now, because plenty of parents don't/can't save & plenty kids (poor but bright ethnic minority so would get scholarships) don't go because they can't stomach the prospect of all that debt. Debt you can never lose until it's all paid off.

There is the whole "Relationship with the State" issue. British have the welfare state & expectation that govt. exists to help everyone out. Americans believe we do it ourselves with govt taking a minimalist services role (eg., police, roads, security, child protection). However, there are system abberations .... Ivy League absorb a huge amount of US federal student loans, it's a scandal that the fed. govt. subsidises very high fees of Ivy League.

But I totally agree about UK kids grow up faster. It would be criminal child abandonment if I kicked my 16yo out in California.

... you know the other thing is salaries.

Last week a family friend (arrived in USA as a refugee) mentioned casually that she worked 33 yrs before her salary got to $100,000 (£70k)/annum. She advised her adult kids to get into buy to let ASAP. Having pulled herself up by own graft, she expects same of her kids but she also observes that her kids & their friends are pulling down $80k-$250k/yr. I earn the equivalent of $42k/yr, which is still actually a good UK salary. Everyone in USA thinks it's fantastic marvelous that DH & I both work PT & never rely on paid childcare. But we're not earning enough to save enough to make a big dent in future Uni costs. If we both worked FT for 45 yrs and had fewer kids, maybe...

Why is it beyond you that govts think they should pay. (sic)

A large proportion of medical school applicants went to private school suggesting their family can fund their uni.

Answered your own question there.
Oh, and a junior doctor starts on 22,000 for an approximate 60 hour week.

Until recently it didn't cost or didn't cost much, students used to be able to claim housing benefit and dole at least in the summer.

Lots of jobs that are now graduate were historically not eg things like nursing were a mix of study and paid work.

Uni education is not seen as absolutely necessary for lots of jobs. Uni education tends to be shorter, it takes 5 years to be a doctor here compared with 8 in the USA.

Partly the same thing is that we don't 'do' 'school' as in law school, or medical school - they are undergraduate degrees.

Whilst we are still in the EU we can also access university in other EU countries, I have a friend currently taking a degree via a Swedish university, his fees are £0.

When fees were first introduced, I started saving diligently for my dcs to go to university. With the (stupid) idea that 50% of kids should go to university, obviously it's living in la-la land to hope that it can be fee free. The initial £3K per annum seemed fair and achievable in terms of saving.

Then the fees went up. Then the fees went up again. And they'll no doubt go up again. So it's fuck it - I can't save £27 x 2 + living costs (hall fees in some places are £7K/year ).

It does make me grrrrrrr about the number of university courses. Actually I'm ambivalent about Golf Course Studies or whatever - at least that's of practical use. What makes me seethe is, eg, an English degree at the University of Just Founded Last Week that previously was some 60s further education college. I'm sorry, but if you can't get into the top twenty universities for English then your English ain't that great. And also Criminology. Criminology! We all like true crime. The Serial podcast, Steven Avery, etc - all fascinating - AS AN INTEREST!!! Not as a subject worthy of taking public money. Now I'm hyperventilating....

I never understood why USA degrees are so long.

Faffing around with all these extra subjects to fill extra time seems superfluous.

Isnt it right that medical degrees in the USA are always post graduate.

You need to do a four year undergrad first so it takes 8 years?

What a colossal waste of money.

Medicine should be an undergrad degree as here. It works pretty well.

8 years of whopping tuition fees and not working until you're 26 at least.

Maybe its a bit presumptious to think at birth "my child WILL go to university". I know amongst my friends, we would never talk about that kind of stuff

I thiught it was so that they get a well rounded education, instead of focussing on one/two subjects for 3 years

Am I right in thinking in North America college is further education with someone Majoring in their interested field?

It works differently here. You only study the subject you enrol for and, consequently, have lots of free time (most courses anyways) to work in and around your lectures.

Do you think British Sixth Formers also have far more free time while studying three to four subjects than their continental peers who have a much broader approach in their equivalent qualifications? Or that someone studying a Joint Honours degree in the UK has double the workload of a Single Honours degree?

I thiught it was so that they get a well rounded education, instead of focussing on one/two subjects for 3 years

The well rounded education is what high school is for.

Why waste time on extortionate tuition fees and keep yourself out of the work force even longer.

We save what we can for DD and DS in the Halifax ISA which still has a decent interest rate (was 6%, now 4%). It isn't labelled a "college fund" per se as it is in their names and will be in trust until they turn 18, at which point it will be theirs to spend as the wish (gulp). I am hopeful it will be used for university expenses but as they will be adults then, I have to trust/ hope they will use it sensibly. If they don't well, there is no other "pot" marked for their higher education, but that will be their choice.

We balance saving what we can for them with our own pensions and trying to overpay our substantial mortgage (London area) when we can. We don't really go on holiday except cheap UK weekends these days, we could if we didn't overpay mortgage and save for children, but at the moment those are our priorities. A lot of people aren't lucky enough to have any spare money at the end of the month.

And I do think that given the way tuition fees are going, adult children are likely to need a bit of a hand with fees / living costs if they go to uni. I'm 35 and I only finished paying off my £15k loan last year.... it will be much worse by the time children grow up. I do obviously expect them to get part time job, loans etc as well, but savings are to help them too. At some universities (eg Oxford, where I studied) they used to frown upon students working at all in termtime.... not sure if this is still the case, but it can make getting a job tricky. I worked in vacations and did some very very part time work in termtime (serving in hall once or twice a week), but any more might have been difficult with balancing studies (and would definitely have been frowned upon by my college had they become aware).

And actually if you look at advice online it's not always worth paying the fees since the threshold has now gone up and you only start paying back once earning 21k there are people who will never actually pay the money back and what they do pay each month is minimal until you get into really big salaries .

So imagine instead the parents saved money which helped dc buy a house etc much better way of doing it

IHT implications for the latter, and the interest rolls up each year on the loan, si the debt increases. What is it comes to the point that the govt insists the loan is repaid? We don't know what will happen with these loans in the future, and as ds doesn't have to have them, I don't want that uncertainty hanging over him.

As for helping to buy a house, in your opinion it's better, not in everyone's, and don't quote Martin Bloody Lewis at me because on student loans he is wrong. You need to loo at the thread on this in the Higher Ed topic.

Some parents don't see their kids as their responsibility once they reach adulthood. My parents were clear that I was on my own once I was legally an adult. They were also of a generation where people got non repayable grants, so I don't think they had any idea of the true cost of university, such as rent and food.

There are many many options in the UK for non degree holding adults. Work placed training/apprentiships etc mean that not having a degree doesn't mean "low income".

Similarly having a degree doesn't mean "high income"

My understanding of the US system is that you need to have "gone to college" in order to make it in life. No specifics as to what course or what college. Just "go to college". It isn't like that in the UK.

I think there also is a culture in US of looking down on those who didn't go to college or (gasp!) Went to community college.

There is none of that here

My US husband and I do have a college fund. We're not relying on anything to help us out in 16-17 years time. We pay about £40 a month in it and will be putting all his birthday money in it. It will be his choice when he's 18 if he chooses to go but he knows where the funds are if he does.

My son is going to university. I haven't saved anything towards it, simply because I can't afford to.
It's his choice to go and he's financing himself through loans, and possibly a part time job. He's looked at the long term impications and sees the repayments as a graduate tax.
My eldest son didn't go to uni and is pretty succesful in his career, and doing well financially, however he has hit a ceiling . Even so he doesn't consider the lack of a degree a handicap. In any case, he has the opportunity of studying for the relevant professional qualifications which will eventually result in a degree.
One of their cousins left school at 16 with only Olevel equivalent qualifications and is doing extremely well financially. I don't think a degree is essential in the UK, in fact sometimes the 3-4 years of work experience and training can be more beneficial.

One other thing. My bil and sil in the states regret saving up for anything at all. Here's why - sils daughter from previous relationship was all due to start UCLA a few years ago with reduced fees due to sil them being 'unmarried' or 'single'. Without thinking about it, she married my bil. Circumstances rapidly changed resulting in my bil having to fork out $40,000 of his own savings for a house in southern california to put his new step child through college. He is less than happy about what happened! He doesn't talk about it with his wife or daughter around. He said if he had just held off marrying her for a few years they'd be a lot better off. So maybe we won't save after all!!

*I never understood why USA degrees are so long.

Faffing around with all these extra subjects to fill extra time seems superfluous.*

Many reasons - with the exception of the top tier of universities most US universities offer a lower standard of education than the UK. The facilities are far better but the quality isn't there. For these the first year - year and a half is comparable to A level standard.

US degree courses are very woolly - the plus side gives students chance to pick n mix and figure out slowly what they want. On the minus side it means courses are often very unstructured and there's little evidence of development or progression in a particular field (students often re-use assignments with minor tweaks),. UK degree courses are designed as a whole with clear development from year to year.

Generally you cover more depth in a UK degree in three years than a US degree in 4.

OMG, the other thing about the USA:

Each kid is a tax deduction. I think they might take up to $5k each off your tax bill. More deductions if the kid is blind, in private school, etc. Now imagine you're earning enough to put all $5k+ into a college savings plan each year for 18 yrs...

which plan itself (example 529 plan) has tax relief on it. I can't think of similar University savings plans in UK, never mind there is not actually a whole industry of similar tax-efficient savings plans available.

British but live in the US. One child born each side of the pond and not sure where they'll go to uni/college. We'll be doing all we can to avoid ours having to pay for tuition with loans etc. I'm 35 and only just finished paying off my own loan (thanks to inheritance, haven't worked for the last four years due to being a SAHM). DH's parents paid off his loan. It's going to be hard enough for the next generation to get onto the housing ladder and so on without loan repayments being deducted from their salaries. It's all very well saying they have to earn over a certain amount - but that amount is so paltry that a decent graduate salary will see a chunk removed each month. I also think that universities need to up their game given the costs involved. We regularly had tutors not turning up, forgetting to make assignments and so on. I'm sorry but at what's now close to £30K for three years, I'd expect a lot more.

*mark assignments