To wonder why if the tories are so unpopular, they always get in?

[maggiethemagpie]

Are there a lot of secret Tory voters who won't admit it? They have won most elections since the second world war, so they must be doing something right (in terms of appealing to the electorate to continuously vote for them) yet I see a lot of Tory bashing threads on here and I don't know anyone in my own life who'd admit to voting Tory.

I'm not particularly a leftie, I'm a centrist if anything and believe a balance of left and right leaning politics is optimal, but it seems like it is very 'right on' to admit to a socialist view and wanting to do more for society's vulnerable or poor, but to admit to admiring conservative views is not acceptable. You hear of 'Tory Scum' but never 'Labour Scum'.

So who are all these people voting for the conservatives? Because they always seem to get in, and the Blair years when they did not, people say Blair was a red Tory anyway!

Or are people just afraid to admit what their political views are if it does not sound socially acceptable?

The tories are being investigated for election fraud under the last election. I have no doubt there is corruption in some places to get the result they want

"There's nothing wrong with the SATS. My dc took them this year without issue, it was all hype about nothing."

Oh thats ok then. Doesn't matter that every education professional worth their salt thinks they are stifling creativity, creating too much stress, have been poorly implemented etc, etc, etc. ConfuciousSayWhat's DC took them and were fine, what is everyone worrying about. This for me sums up the typical Tory attitude - "I'm alright Jack". Do you know what, my DD will probably be fine taking them next year, bored shitless but fine, but that is not the bloody point. They are not fit for purpose and Nicky Morgan is a cretin who refuses to discuss education with anyone who knows anything about it.

As for the cuts being brutal, I don't see anyone who actually has suffered because of them thinking they were a price worth paying. Its always the relatively well off going "oh, needs must". If you haven't actually had to go and get your food from a food bank, have fought and fought to get your eldery mother care, tried to get your child some mental health support, etc. I am not sure you really understand. At the last GE my FIL said to me "oh, you will be better off". I don't need to be better off. I am already better off than lots of people. And this whole point about "if you make business pay what they should actually pay, they will go elsewhere" is a scare tactic put about, oh, guess who, big business. Some will, many won't and in new entrants will come into the market.

As for the economy, well down to the fuckwittery of a Tory government even Osbourne has said we are looking at more taxation and more cuts.

But there you go, carry on being "proud"

Arrested

Do you have any evidence that the Tories rigged the last election? There are some issues with election expenses not being declared, but that is a far cry from what you are suggesting. I seem to recall recent cases of vote rigging and postal vote fraud happened under labour candidates.

Also, those moaning about boundary changes, they are decided by the independent boundary commission who tweak them to reflect changes in constituent populations. Recent changes have 'helped' the conservatives insofar as correcting historical imbalances that favoured labour for years, don't recall too many labour supporters flagging that as an issue when they were romping home to three election victories on the bounce.

Because the opposition is divided amongst lots of partyies now basically.

1st past the post and all that. You can get a Tory government when 30 something percent of voters voted for them.

Hence the current idea of having a "Progressive Alliance".

Over half the electorate voted for a right of centre party.

Always been Tory round here never voted for them yet. The majority of British politics is laughable at present.

There is a way to fund essential services but it would mean forcing big business to pay the taxes they should and increased taxation. I would be happy to pay more tax. Tory voters seem wedded to the myth that the Tories are much better at looking after the economy

How do you force big businesses to pay more tax. They can side step it easily by basing their business/admin in cheaper countries like Ireland.

The real answer would be for all those wanting more tax money for welfare to stop using Amazon/ Google until they pay a fair tax rate. You have to hit them where it hurts. But fat chance of a large chunk of the population doing that. They don't care enough to deprive themselves of that.

Someone a few pages back said it was 'amusing' that those (the left) who preach tolerance, compassion, equality and a list of other very desirable qualities can be so nasty if you disagree with them, and this has now been bandied around the thread as if it's a really clever bit of analysis.

However, if you disagree with tolerance, compassion, equality, diversity and all those other vital values, then you deserve to be taken apart for it. Are we supposed to be nice to callous people and bigots and racists now??

Not preaching doesn't mean not believing in though. There are people (like the hospice volunteers cited earlier) who work for some of these values themselves but wouldn't dream of telling other people what they should be doing.

Someone a few pages back said it was 'amusing' that those (the left) who preach tolerance, compassion, equality and a list of other very desirable qualities can be so nasty if you disagree with them, and this has now been bandied around the thread as if it's a really clever bit of analysis
However, if you disagree with tolerance, compassion, equality, diversity and all those other vital values, then you deserve to be taken apart for it. Are we supposed to be nice to callous people and bigots and racists now??

MerchantofVenice

You have just proved everything in that statement to be totally correct.
Listen to yourself, you are stating that your OPINION of what is and isn't a desirable quality is correct with no acknowledgement that other people may have a different point of view.

You then go on to state that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a callous, racist, bigot.

Again, these are you OPINIONS, others may or may not agree with you but you are most certainly not automatically right so get off your moral high horse.

Proud Tory here. Tend to just avoid politics on here though :)

Using the Ipsos Mori figures linked to earlier
Con -38%
Lab - 31%
LD - 8%
Ukip - 13%
Green - 4%
Other - 6% (assume 1% is the Ulster Unionists count the rest as Left of Centre)

So
Right of Centre = 38+13+1 = 52%
Left of Centre = 31+8+4+5 = 48%

At the last election the majority of votes were cast for Right of Centre parties. The left suffered slightly more from vote fragmentation than the right.

I think the so called tory election fraud which has come up a couple of times on this thread relates to expenses (of course that has to be dealt with) but actual election rigging occurred around postal voting and was, I think, a labour scandal.

Neither is right but the latter is much, much more serious and just to reiterate, that was/is a LABOUR scandal.

Appalling and even more appalling to start a whispering campaign that it should be laid at the door of someone else.

However, if you disagree with tolerance, compassion, equality, diversity and all those other vital values, then you deserve to be taken apart for it. Are we supposed to be nice to callous people and bigots and racists now??

Wow 6 pages before someone said it, usually first or second page on a thread with Tory in the title.

Oh, and while I am about it: abolish postal and proxy votes except for medical professionals, the Forces, the police (all leave being usually cancelled on election day) and other such groups. And don't even think about online voting. Very secret that would be. There is nothing like having to go the poll and being alone in the booth to allow people to vote independently of pressure from their families, their colleagues, their union, the council, you name it. Just you and the ballot paper and the pen.

The real answer would be for all those wanting more tax money for welfare to stop using Amazon/ Google until they pay a fair tax rate. You have to hit them where it hurts. But fat chance of a large chunk of the population doing that. They don't care enough to deprive themselves of that.

Boycotting is fine if it is the choice of individuals - or of households at the highest - and involves a personal sacrifice of money or amenity. I grew up in a home where South African goods were just not seen - when the only citrus fruit was Outspan we did without - and it was the same in my adult life until some point in the Nineties. And if others want to boycott Amazon or Starbucks or some retailer whose clothes are alleged to made by sweated slave labour, that's fine by me. But I never argued with people who bought Outspan and I don't expect anyone to tell me where I should or should not spend money.

Given the prominance of immigration in the Brexit campaign and the actual pattern of voting I don't think any party can be confident that it doesn't have a few "bigots and racists" right now.

You forgot to mention 'people who physically can't get to the polling station' - they need postal/proxy too of course.

I'm a Tory voter. When I was younger I would talk about it, but I've since learn to keep quiet because you will generally get abuse.

Even on this random thread, look at the abuse!

Obviously every Tory hates education, the NHS, those on low incomes...

I'm a loud and proud Tory voter who isn't so proud at the moment. Cameron has fucked up big time and should have remained independent in the referendum thus allowing him to continue as PM and carry out our withdrawal from the EU.

Left wingers make me laugh. It's like they are all indoctrinated to spew out the same old thing re the Tories, ie they hate the disabled, I'm disabled; they want to dismantle the NHS, that's the last thing I want; they are all rich - I'm a pensioner and I'm poor. So not only is it insulting, it's wrong.

I was talking in part about the tax gap which according to government figures is around 34billion, the majority of which is unpaid tax from business.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/470540/HMRC-measuring-tax-gaps-2015-1.pdf

It's ridiculous if people can't openly talk about politics without being insulted and their views listened to

I am a labour voter some of my friends are Tory voters and some are labour. Some of my leftie friends are far more concerned about their money amd increase in the price of their properties than my Tory friends but of course hate Tories and anyone who voted leave is stupid and racist yet they think they are open minded

And as for the left luvies please stop preaching and learn from your mistakes in the referendum

Ok so what makes everyone so proud to be a Tory voter?

Orda, do do you think the tory's education policy is a good one (especially their long term aim for academies) and were cuts to DLA justified? Do you agree with the closure of children's centres and the decimation of social and health care services? Are you proud of an increasing reliance on food banks.

This is what I am trying to understand. If you are proud of being a Tory then clearly you are in agreement with the harm they have caused. Or do you just not see it and therefore you don't think it's real?