NHS A&E department telling us to leave and go private????

[notgettingyounger]

I went to my local London A&E with DD, 19yo, on Monday. She was triaged as an "emergency" rather than "urgent care" and told a cubicle and bed would be found. The nurse then returned and said she wasn't trying to kick us out but not only were there no spare cubicles in "Emergencies", but there were no staff whatsoever who would be able to see DD within the necessary time-frame so she strongly suggested we go somewhere privately instead.

I said I didn't know how to even go private for an emergency, let alone how I would get to another hospital in the London morning rush-hour with a very ill young woman in such severe pain that she couldn't even walk - I asked if they would provide an ambulance to blue-light her somewhere suitable but the staff said no whilst at the same time telling me that DD was seriously sick and yet could not be seen owing to a shortage of doctors.

I don't blame the triage nurse, who I think was genuinely trying to help us get medical care ASAP, but AIBU to be shocked to be told basically to go away and find private care when turning up at A&E with a woman triaged as an emergency? Is the NHS actually broken? I shudder to think what DD would have gone through had I not been there as her advocate. In any case, I am not sure that there are private hospitals that deal with acute admissions, are there???

Incidentally, after I conducted an audible telephone conversation with DH about how the NHS hospital was asking if we could go anywhere private as they had no staff who could see her even though she urgently needed to be treated, DD was immediately seen by the Staff Nurse in Charge (who should have just finished his shift so bless him) who at least gave DD some much needed IV pain relief and a saline drip, but she was still left to lie uncomfortably across two metal chairs designed for visitors, whilst attached to her drip, as there were still no cubicles and, presumably, not a trolley in the whole hospital.

7 hours later, we finally saw a doctor who immediately admitted DD, put her on IV antibiotics and listed her for an emergency operation first thing in the morning, so we were hardly the worried well - actually, just one look at DD would have confirmed that.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is there a diktat to NHS staff that people who seem wealthy (I am well spoken and well dressed which is the only thing I can put this down to) should be redirected to private hospitals at busy times?

NB I have n/c to protect my DD's confidentiality.

My DC and I nearly died in a central Lonfon hospital 5 years ago. The women needing to give birth ahead of me were all greater emergencies than me so I had to wait, until we were at death's door and then we were helped. It is what it is. I was not born in the UK but I am British, none of the other women in the recovery ward or babies in SCBU were though. When I think back, we should have gone private because we could have afforded to. Maybe then I would still have a womb and be able to have had a second child and my DC wouldn't have their problems. But that's life. The NHS can't cope.

This is very odd. Private hospitals very rarely have A&E - unless you are from overseas it would be unthinkable for staff to have done this. You haven't said what the emergency was; if it was a mental health crisis of some kind and you gave the impression you had used private facilities before then that could be understandable.

Very odd indeed. I used to work in a private hospital with no A & E facility and it was very common to blue-light emergencies to the NHS hospital. I'd say it's a rare thing indeed for a private hospital to have emergency services - especially outside of regular hours.

My 91yo grandma spent 9hrs propped on chairs in A&E last week. She was terrified. They were extremely apologetic but there was nowhere for her to go.

It's very bad atm.

My local A&E is fabulous and has never ever let me down. Yes you might have to wait a while, but never for very long and they always make you comfortable if you are in pain.

Just saying.

This thread has Wind Up written all over it.

It sounds plausable if horrible for the OP

It just doesn't do anyone any favours for the front line staff to play down the waits and the shortages, if the same nurse said "oh there'll be a bed & treatment any moment now" then that nurse would be making themselves more likely to be assaulted when that didn't happen

The nurse was honest. It is wrong that the bed/trolly/staff status were what they were, but not wrong that that staff was honest and told the OP that the wait was indefinite for now and unfortunately a private hospital might be a better bet that day for prompt treatment

Wow this is scary! How awful for you both!

The OP said her daughter was admitted and schedules for surgery so it doesn't sound like a mental health issue Duchess

Sounds awful.

This is what happens if you vote Tory :(

I work in an overstretched A&E. It doesn't sound like a wind up at all.

It's better to be upfront if there is a long wait. That way it stops SOME of the aggression 3 hours down the line when they still haven't been seen.

Blame the greedy bankers, they caused all this.

There are

too many people
not enough money in the pot
an overburdened middle layer /beaurocracy

there is 1 answer, select a political party that will manage you money better and pay more tax. the countries with the best health services have a far higher tax rate than here. but whenever I suggest it I get ripped to pieces

people can argue all they like, but the NHS needs more money - and a minor tax rate across the board will achieve this

and yes, charge for GP appts for people that can afford it (as with prescriptions)

A problem like this experienced in A&E isn't usually caused by A&E or it's staff.

It's the other end, when people are well enough to leave but there's no nursing home beds or no social care packages to help them in their own home. If they don't move, A&E can't move

The nurse was just honest.

Complain about the wait, the lack of beds, the uncomfortable positions. It'll help argue for more social care at the other end of the hospital chain

Don't complain about the nurse who was honest with you

Tories / misuse of services (i.e. A&E for minor ailments) / increasing (and aging) population ... yes, the NHS is broken

Surely people misusing A&E for minor ailments should not impact on emergencies though. The minor ailments wait and the emergency gets seen. That is the point of triage.

In this case it sounds like the actual capacity to deal with emergencies was overwhelmed. That is really worrying.

Yes, the NHS is broken . I work in a clinical setting within the NHS and within my Trust and most others I should imagine the situation is dire. Management say patient safety is the priority but the pressure on staff to cut corners is immense.

Please complain to PALS. To be told to go elsewhere when your daughter was obviously ill is terrible. This was very obviously to avoid breaching the A&E 4 hour target. I know A&E departments are very busy and lots of people shouldn't be there, but your daughter was in the right place, very dangerous practice to be telling people to go home.

I was a student nurse until recently. My last placement was on a rehabilitation ward, which dealt with getting people up and about after ortho surgery mainly. The amount of patients that were deemed medically fit for discharge on that ward was horrendous. Almost all of them were waiting on a care package or nursing home placement from SS. I witnessed patients spending 10 weeks or more in hospital, after being medically fit to go home after 2 weeks. However if an elderly patient was taken home by family, that family would have to look after their relative as they were no longer a priority for SS. We really do need better links between health and social care and a massive cash boost for decent domicilliary care and nursing homes. This will definitely have a knock on effect throughout our hospitals

I really feel for your daughter. Is it appendicitis? I was in A&E for 10 hours with that in march, although luckily about 5 hours of that was in a proper little room on a trolley.

When I was allowed home a couple of days later after IV antibiotics (no op as yet) I was told by the specialist that I could go at about 8.30 am. I actually got my meds (more antibiotics, so I couldn't just get them elsewhere) at about 3.30pm. The doctor couldn't do the discharge letter until she'd finished her rounds, and the pharmacy didn't even pick up my prescription until midday. So there is a lot of scope for changing the discharge process for people who don't need SS help. There could be a basic form for the Dr to sign at the bedside, so she could do the letter whenever was convenient for her and sent it on. Pharmacy could have been told about the meds via email or phone, or better still by PDA and intranet so the Dr can literally do it on the spot.

I was taking up a bed for about 7 hours unnecessarily while someone else was doubled up on a chair in A&E (those chairs are designed so you can't lie across them, presumably deliberately). I do realise making changes to the system takes time and money, but it would be a worthwhile spend in the medium term. Of course, when artificial targets mean everything has to get better in the extreme short term or else, it would be hard to find someone brave enough to action it.

I always thought that there should be discharge lounges in hospitals. Once you are deemed as fit to leave that day, you packed up and shifted out to a lounge where you could sit on comfy chairs, watch tv and there could possibly be some food/drinks available. This would free up beds as these people would literally just be sat waiting for discharge letters and meds.

I was at a hospital in London today for an appointment and arrived early.
I was the only patient and was seen early, saw lots of NHS staff working.
Hope your dd is better soon.

I always thought that there should be discharge lounges in hospitals

There are, but they're not usually suitable for people waiting for nursing home beds. And it only helps for people who are definitely leaving that day

There is a discharge lounge at my hospital (ended up there). It has beds in, for people who are going to different hospitals (I assume) and a row of armchairs full of people being irritable because they don't feel well and are waiting for hospital transport- this can be literally 3 or four hours- or meds, ditto. It's not at all comfortable or relaxing!