I'm disgusted with the young people .... (demonstrative post)

[AuntJane]

24% of people aged 18-24 voted Leave, and 12% didn't even bother to vote at all! I'm shocked and disgusted that over a third of young people happily sold their friends and their future down the river! What the hell were they thinking of, the selfish b***ds?

NO, I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THIS. But the figures are correct, and this is the type of abuse that is being aimed at older people en masse - even though over a third of people aged 50-64 voted Remain. Apparently we're all evil simply for having lived that long.

It's offensive, abusive, discriminatory and, quite honestly, I would have hoped that Mumsnetters would have been above it. Unfortunately I was wrong.

So once and for all, can I please ask people to stop making sweeping generalised statements?

I'm not commenting either way on the EU on Mumsnet because I don't want to get involved on here but I don't think there is anything wrong with people quoting statistics about how various age groups or even sociology-economic groups voted, as long as they are not derogatory about the groups. These facts are very important and give an insight into how the UK needs to change and also how we ended up making this decision.

It is a fact that the majority of people educated to degree level voted to remain.

It is a fact that the majority of people aged over 45 voted to leave.

It is a fact that turnout was low in areas with more young people.

Of course people are going to make statements about these groups - it is important to analyse the data. However, I don't think people should be rude about any group - they can express their disappointment/pride though.

I can understand why younger people feel the way they do actually. We're living in a world where they end up in masses of debt for going to Uni, can't get onto the property ladder but can't get any social housing either because there isn't enough of it anymore, will probably have to work until they're in their 80's etc. The majority of them wanted to stay in the EU and feel like they've been screwed over by older generations who, with respect, might be be around to live with the consequences of it Brexit.

I also think the comment from a previous poster about older people being '"more knowledgeable" about previous economies and life outside the EU is patronising and condescending, but it's apparently OK to be agist twaords the Young on here.

But the figures are correct no they aren't. There were no exit polls, no way of really knowing. None of the numbers about age related voting are in anyway factual.

You know this... the last election showed that people say anything when asked, remember the exit polls were way off last time!

The age split is just another way of sowing discord... and it is working. Stop it! You are being manipulated again!

Hi - Sending all the children of Europe my love - Europe is our children's country don't let it be taken away from them

Sign the petition for a second referendum and change the future - It's going viral and will have to be taken seriously

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/signatures/new

Take back EU your county and stay in the EU for the sake of your Kids

RosieX

As an aside: "They got a free education all the way through uni including grants you could actually live on" But not that many went to uni then. Great for those who did, but you're talking about a small percentage of the population.

Picklebot

What, all of us? In the 1970s only one in three went to university - far fewer than today - so we didn't all get that famous free education. Many of us live in one or two bedroom flats, not mini-mansions. Many of us were made redundant from those famous "jobs for life" and have struggled to find other jobs because of our extreme old age (50s). Some never got to claim their pensions at all - including my husband - and I'm not counting on a state pension but am paying 9% of my income into a company pension. But that doesn't fit your rhetoric.

And you chose to ignore 24% of young Leave voters.

Mimsy - you are right.

When I left school it was about 10% of people who went on to university. Certainly nowhere near the current numbers!

X-post! AuntJane - was it a third? I'm sure it was more like 10%?

I'm probably wrong - as usual

If London and Scotland had bothered to vote in the same numbers as the rest of the U.K. Remain would have won. If the 18-24 demographic had pulled their heads out of their arses and VOTED rather than acting like teenagers moaning on Twitter Remain would have won.
Rather than objecting to old people who actually registered to vote and then voted they should take a long hard look at themselves.
If you're so apathetic you don't exercise your right to vote you have no right to complain when it doesn't go your way.
As to a second referendum we should tell them ODFOD too late should have voted on the 23rd. Come back in 43 years when you're old enough to understand in a democracy you actually have to vote.

I am massively unsure about the numbers. In fact, I'm going as far to say I don't believe them. There wasn't a proper exit poll - the table that is being shared around on social media is based on a sample size of 1652 people and it was taken pre-vote too. That's far too small a sample size imo. Although I happily admit I don't know much about the science of surveys, I'm not convinced enough to start an inter-generational blame game.

YABU to start another thread on this subject.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2670074-to-think-the-ageism-because-the-old-voted-for-Brexit-is-disgusting

These unhappy young voters need to understand what democracy means. One person, one vote. And abstainers get no say at all.

It's a good illustration of the smug knowledge that was evident throughout the campaign that Remain were going to win. Except they didn't. I knew Leave would win, I was so convinced I took out a bet and will be spending those winnings this weekend.

The Remainers will come to be secretly grateful that they lost, when in a few years' time, the UK is going from strength to strength, unburdened by the cold dead hand of the EU. Meanwhile the EU is in terminal decline and the Euro will have collapsed.

Absolutely op. This is the point I've been trying to make yesterday to a lot of people.

In areas where the demographic was younger, voter turnout was lower.

Salmotrutta - I think I was being generous in including some non-university tertiary education in my figures.

I don't understand how they can be so sure of numbers either. A vote is secret and opinion polls can be wrong - it depends on the sample of people asked.

This free university education that everyone accessed in the good old days: I left school in the mid eighties and no-one in my year went to university - I was the only one that passed an A level. There was one girl in the year above me who went.

No not many went to uni, because you had these things called apprenticeships, you got (low) paid to train remember? But you decided uni was better and killed off apprenticeships, and introduced internships (so long as you can live on nothing). People who should be doing few new apprenticeships don't even know what they are.

Oh yes, YACS, YOPS, all those good things that replaced apprenticeships in the 1980s. They were no better than the current Apprenticeships, less as they had no protection, little oversight and held no currency in any workplace. They were only cheap labour, very, very few included any worthwhile training.

Apprenticeships died out before the 80s. Internships existed for hundreds of years before. You have no idea what you are talking about. I say that as one whose DSis did a YOP and having spent the last 4 years teaching Apprentices.

Your DM style dislike is showing through!

• by the 1980s. Callaghans government introduced them in the late 70s, Thatcher rebranded them YTS in early 80s

This might help www.reading.ac.uk/news-and-events/releases/PR419470.aspx

Sorry you don't know what you're talking about Blanch, you sound like one of those older people who sees the past though rose tinted glasses ignoring inconvenient truths. My trade was and always has been for hundreds of years taught though apprenticeships, uni was a ridiculous place to not learn my trade.

Hardly that old, I have a couple of decades to go before I can retire! But you are right about some real apprenticeships. But not about all of them.

And many of the real ones went because of computerisation / miniturisation and other leaps in technology... I say that as an ex typesetter, DH would say the same as a heavy plant fitter.

Maybe I am not the only one ignoring some inconvenient truths!

No, I know of a typesetter who lost his trade and also got caught in negative equity. I also know a typesetter who kept up with advancements and remained in the trade.
But my trade is older than the printing press and will always remain the same.
Maybe Blanche start reading posts properly, you decided I was talking about the 80's I wasn't, you're going all over MN, screaming lier at anything you don't like. It does make you sound a bit foolish.

Personally, I am disgusted that so few people voted. Of all demographics.

Thanks Scaredy, my first MN stalker

I decided you might have been talking about 80s apprenticeships as it was in the late 70s, after youth employment plummeted, that Callaghan brought in YOPS. That included many industries that had stopped apprenticeships.

As a typesetter I too moved into the digital age, even designed typefaces for a decade. Not sure what point you were trying to make there!

A profession older than printing... Mmmm, beer or sex?

And I am not screaming 'lier' [sic] I am screaming "Stop the doomongering. It has happened. We need to wake up and get on with it. Sitting and screeching to the rest of the world that we are fucked up, broken, on our last legs, financially screwed, is not helpful, nor is it the whole story."