DH explanation of referendum result to 12 year old?

[margewiththebluehair]

DS was completely distraught this morning watching the news of the result. Mortified and inconsolable. He just kept saying why? over and over. He has been keenly following the referendum and insisting to DH and I that we vote remain for a myriad reasons.

DH tried to reassure him that UK is still a global power and that while things will be difficult, it is nothing to worry too much about (of course both DH and I were equally mortified - and we ARE worried - but didn't want DS to know that).

But DS went on and on about why would people be so dumb - So DH just explained that a lot of uneducated people voted and since the uneducated outnumber the educated - they won. DS accepted this as a reasonable explanation. I am not convinced it is true.

WeekendAway actually my 8 yo is informed as much as 8yos can be. I haven't discussed my EUref preference. I didn't discuss it with my OH because its such a divided thing. He is very much a labour supporter. I am not.

We let my 8yo make up their own mind and they have picked it up from the radio and reading the paper, watching news stories, reading the leaflets that came through the door.

my 8yo grasped it alone. Decided that staying in the EU was a good thing. My DCs reasoning is of course limited to the fact if it wasn't for the EU they wouldn't have some of the friends they do now.

DCs school also encourage politics. They do their own votes when it comes up to elections with teachers taking the place of Each party. Last time my DC voted for the Green party who also pushed for Remain this time and has often asked to look them up online. I guess that's where they got the information from. Not parroting me I can assure you.

Kids are far more switched on than we give them credit for.

uneducated people voted and since the uneducated outnumber the educated

How very fucking rude.

I find the ubiquitous rhetoric that all OUT voters are thick, racist luddites deeply offensive. If this is what you think, it is you who is small minded.

Your DS is stressed because he has picked up on his parents' narrative surrounding the referendum. A narrative that you were either unable, or unwilling to ensure remained neutral when in his ear-shot.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/brexit-property-right-left-eu-expert?CMP=share_btn_fb

Yes to your ds and the panicked 12 year old being massive drama Queens.

My DS (15) is a bit older than the OP's, and has a pretty good grasp of the different arguments, as well as a surprisingly in-depth understanding of the European historical context (History buff). He's been involved in a mack referendum, has friends who worked at the local count etc

His comment this morning? 'Thanks folks. Oh well, it'll be our job to sort out the mess.' I think that 'well, I might not like the result, but the main thing to think about is what to do now' is a healthy response.

Dh has an excellent degree. He voted out. He runs his own business and cannot see what benefit being a memebr of the EU brings.

DH and I have 5 degrees between us

So one of you has an Masters and one a Doctorate? Big deal. Not.

Mack = mock. Apologies.

For 2 'educated' people your comments are remarkably thick, ignorant and entitled.
Your DH sounds like a spoilt child who has not got his way

At 11, surely it's time to start having reasoned intelligent discussions with your son about different views and why people might hold them, putting yourself in others shoes, the nature of power, the role of the media etc. For what it's worth I think education does come in to it, but education is much more than just schooling and qualifications.

I don't think this is real. Can it really be? There are people who'd tell their 12yo that?! And parents who'd stand by and let that opinion stand. No...this is unreal. If it is real, I'd say that everyone in the family could do with a spot of education. Parents and DC alike.

Plus to have allowed biased opinions of doom and gloom to freely flow as fact to the degree that a 12yo is distraught, presumably because life as we know it is ending(?), sounds very worrying to me. Poor child.

peachpudding - I don't think it's because people are thick - not having a degree doesn't mean you're stupid after all just that maybe you didn't have the opportunities others had - but really some people have voted against their own interests.

How much immigration has there been into the Rhondda valley? Very little. How much European funding has gone there? Loads. Yet they voted leave, despite the fact it will make things worse for them. I'm not calling them stupid, I'm a valleys girl myself, but I don't understand the reasoning.

(I may make an exception for people who voted leave but are now surprised that we actually are leaving and are complaining that they didn't really want that.)

I think it's legitimate for adults and older children who take an interest in the news to be worried.

We're going into unknown territory. In a globalised world we can't go back to some unknown/imaginary past of being in splendid isolation.

We've no longer got such a big manufacturing base and I don't think we are in a strong position in terms of negotiating trade deals.

I'm worried about elderly in-laws who are in poor health and currently living in France. I'm worried about the relationships of my adult children. (One making extended stays in Europe because partner is in an EU country.) I'm worried that one of my stepchildren and their partner are likely to move far away because it is likely that their business opportunities are going to be greater there.

If I had a child panicking and frothing over this I'd be panicking over the mental capacity of the child. For goodness sake people need to get a grip. OP- I am lost for words. You and your DH are a disgrace.

Regardless of my own political beliefs, I tried to give my son an unbiased view of the referendum. I explained why people might choose to vote a certain way rather than telling him the other side is just dumb and uneducated. Regardless of the fact that more Leave voters didn't attend university than Remain, I explained to him why everyone's vote matters.

Your son wanted to know why people voted the way they did, you should have given him a few rational views from either side. I doubt he would have been hysterical otherwise.

Uneducated doesn't mean stupid! My 5 year old is uneducated but she's not an idiot.

Unfortunately there is a lack of education in relation to the EU, people don't understand it fully. Ergo uneducated, the campaign was so full of lies it was laughable, the lack of knowledge is shameful. Plus I have to say based on the people I know voted leave - most didn't leave high school with any qualifications.

That said I think it's wrong to blanket say only uneducated people voted leave, BoJo comes across as a bumbling bafoon but he will fully understand the EU etc etc. especially if you have implied stupid people voted leave!

Why is a 12 yo so distraught? I have always had an interest in politics, watching the results through the night etc. I was upset when a certain mp came into power, knowing it was a bad decision, he was a bad leader (9 yo). But I wasn't distraught!

My 9 year old asked me and this was my explanation.

Everybody has different reasons to vote leave/remain.

Popular reasons why people voted leave were that they were worried about new countries joining the EU, the EU costs a lot of money and we could look after our country better.

Popular reasons to vote in was that we get more from the EU than we pay in, being together rather than at war with other EU countries is better and many people's families and jobs are tied with the EU.

Personally I voted remain but I think it's good for children to know the arguments for/against. The EU is an organisation in need of reform and needs a co-ordinated strong response to the migrant question if it is to stop others leaving.

Shove what peer-reviewed evidence of what?

If you mean that immigrants contribute more in taxes than they claim, I am happy to accept that argument for the time period that data was gathered from.

But the projected 20m in 20 years would have created a very different scenario.

Given that the UK was not a part of the Euro, the UK could never benefit from population shifts like other EU countries.

As part of the Euro-economy, if a country doesn't perform economically it doesn't matter too much (in economic terms) because the better performing parts of the euro-economy bolster up the weaker (eg Germany bailing out Greece)

The EU needs to press ahead fast to properly integrate into a federal state.

The trouble is the pesky people who don't benefit from capitalist economies (the poor majority) object. And if you are democratic it is the pesky poor majority that have the deciding vote.

It is very arrogant to use the uneducated argument. Do you have a better education than Boris Johnson?

margewiththebluehair I'm sure you are highly educated. Can you, without looking it up, describe the political map of Europe before the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, before WW1 and after; the lead up to WW2, post WW2 and at the end of the Cold War? Along side the reasons for the changes? The winners and the losers.
That is highly educated.

mirime I can't not respond to your reference to European funding going into the Rhondda valley. That money is OUR money. UK taxpayers - we are net contributors to the EU.

Substitute 'privileged' for 'educated', consider the relationship between the two and you could start to have an interesting discussion.

What really shocked me at age 11 or 12 was the realisation that most people vote according to their perception of what is best for them personally. Not according to their best assessment of what would be best, overall, for everyone in society. I suspect this realisation is part of what your DS is experiencing.

Talking to him about how different life experiences inform different ideas about what is preferable (as well as about what is right) would be an interesting and age-appropriate discussion and a great starting point for development of critical and empathetic thinking - both essential to becoming educated, in my view.

A big aspect of my own 'shock of self-interested voting' was the correlation between people's parents' economic situation and voting habits. Then how that was often passed on implicitly, uncritically, to the next generation. Any truth in that in your family OP?

I know it was a slim majority

possibly not...
lets not forget that:

72% of those eligible voted
of those 52% said leave / 48% said remain
so 37.44% of those eligible said leave and 34.56% of those eligible said stay
but - what of the 28% who didn't vote? Either they were neutralised couples who were voting one each - or they didn't care :) if they didn't care then they are also happy with leaving - so arguably up to 65.44% of people would be happy with leave - not a small majority by any means...

stats can be used to represent anything you wish...

Alasdair

Really???!!!!! Is this for real?

So supposedly well educated parents are openly teaching their child to be an elite snob with no compassion, empathy or understanding of other's views because the others are 'thick'? Really????

I'm not as educated as you but from what you've said, I'm a bloody better parent!

Jeez