to remind us all that whatever today's result, the sky will not fall?

[Just5minswithDacre]

It would be nice if we could all keep it fluffy in the aftermath

I read the latest poll result last night and spent a few minutes processing we are going to remain. I will fight for the NHS inside the empire.

I am hoping to the weather wont impact the turnout. Whatever the result, it needs to be a high turnout, nothing worse than living with the opinion of just 30% of the population.

I'm sick of everyone on my Facebook becoming keyboard warriors all of a sudden. Keep your views to yourself it's all day at work too. Oh and if it's not that it's this big group of people I know banging on about veganism and cow rape and how everyone should be ashamed if themselves. Whilst posting about voting leave because if immigrants. The mind boggles.

Londonrach Thank you for putting a smile on my face this morning! I we have a stash of Asterix and Tintin books upstairs that I the children keep for nostalgic purposes. Every so often I go in their room and read them dust them down. I They are especially fond of Asterix the legionary think I might read it today

Am practically 40!

Am I the only person who opened this thread to see if it was started by someone called Chicken-Licken?

Well if we leave it will probably scupper ds chance of going to a university in Europe to avoid the massive fees we have here. I don't think many in the brexit camp are thinking that if we vote leave, things will probably still be shit but the youngers will not have the advantage free movement in EU and recourse to try and build a better future in Europe with the ease they can currently. I am tired of brexiters making out that free movement is purely a one way street.

I like the idea behind your message.
There's been so much scaremongering from both sides that I think many people fear a doom for this country that won't come

Thank you weird. I tried, anyway

You sure you know that each individual MNers sky will not fall, OP? There is a scenario in which everything I have worked for in the last 5 years, and consequently my career, would crumble.

But I am reassured by your head patting.

And am also mature enough and accepting of other opinions not to shriek abuse at others, but thanks for the reminder.

It did its level best to fall last night!

It did indeed Tanith

Maybe that was the start of it, because it seems I'm completely wrong and the sky will fall either way

I think I'll leave the "Peace and Live" messages to MNOlivia. They don't seem very popular.

"Peace & Love", even

Most of the sky did fall on us last night, now we have trees down, storm drains up, flooding, road closures and massive public transport issues. Getting to the polling station will be horrible and there is no let up in the rain forecast 🌩☔️

Gosh is it that bad Penfold?

I hope the council & engineers are quick for you.

Antique...you have good taste...thinking of doing the same...

MEPs have as much power and any other MP.

Democratically elected governments nominate European Commissioners. The president is nominated by the parliament majority and voted in or not.

It just isn't an alternative body completely separate from the governments of member states.

The sky won't fall, you're right.
However, I'll probably avoid all social media including MN tomorrow. The crowing from one side or the other will be unbearable whatever the result is.

We will not leave the UK. I've lived through 3 Grexits so far where the world was certain Greece was on its way out. Its still here.

If one country escapes, then the European Union will crumble as other countries follow. No matter what the result of the vote, UK will still be in the EU tomorrow.

Not being a goady fucker, just my opinion and happy to hear opposing views (but not name calling )

I'm surprised by so many people saying we will lose the NHS if we leave.
We're far more likely to privatise the NHS if we remain.
The EU is highly market orientated and believes in privatisation.
We can't nationalise our railways as it against EU competitive regulations. Similarly the NHS is affected the same way.

The problem with UK railways is that they were privatised to start with. The UK exported the idea of public private partnerships with disastrous consequences.

Not sure you can blame the EU for that.
The UK has voted in a conservative government twice already who's all for privatising. Is the EU to blame or uk voters?

Just to confirm - since 18 April this year the EU Directive on public procurement requires clinical health services contracts over around £600k for the NHS to be opened up to competition. Most of these contracts will be won by NHS Providers of course, who are often best placed and will win the competition on objective criteria. However the way is open for private providers, e.g. Virgin Care, to enter these competitions and in some cases to win these.

This replaces the position we had under the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (which was a New Lab concept passed under the ConDem coalition) - where commissioners of clinical health services were required to consider whether holding a competition was in the public interest and the best route to securing a good deal, but it didn't necessarily oblige them to do this. Often competitions were held and private sector providers have been appointed.

It is true to say that the EU laws on this make it more likely that we will see an increased number of private providers in the NHS (though this does depend on whether they can and want to compete with NHS providers, who are often very well placed to deliver the services).

Its also true to say that if we left the EU then a left wing government could remove those elements which require commissioners to compete contracts and allow them to just give the contract to the NHS provider down the road.

As a remain voter, who doesn't want to see privatisation of the NHS, this has been the biggest issue for me to get over.

On the other hand the biggest issues facing the NHS are funding and staffing and I believe to deal with these we need free movement of people and we also need economic certainty (and the tax receipts to fund the NHS that go with it).

That's why I voted remain (together with all sorts of other reasons).

Just to confirm - since 18 April this year the EU Directive on public procurement requires clinical health services contracts over around £600k for the NHS to be opened up to competition. Most of these contracts will be won by NHS Providers of course, who are often best placed and will win the competition on objective criteria. However the way is open for private providers, e.g. Virgin Care, to enter these competitions and in some cases to win these.

This replaces the position we had under the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (which was a New Lab concept passed under the ConDem coalition) - where commissioners of clinical health services were required to consider whether holding a competition was in the public interest and the best route to securing a good deal, but it didn't necessarily oblige them to do this. Often competitions were held and private sector providers have been appointed.

It is true to say that the EU laws on this make it more likely that we will see an increased number of private providers in the NHS (though this does depend on whether they can and want to compete with NHS providers, who are often very well placed to deliver the services).

Its also true to say that if we left the EU then a left wing government could remove those elements which require commissioners to compete contracts and allow them to just give the contract to the NHS provider down the road.

As a remain voter, who doesn't want to see privatisation of the NHS, this has been the biggest issue for me to get over.

On the other hand the biggest issues facing the NHS are funding and staffing and I believe to deal with these we need free movement of people and we also need economic certainty (and the tax receipts to fund the NHS that go with it).

That's why I voted remain (together with all sorts of other reasons).

Just to confirm - since 18 April this year the EU Directive on public procurement requires clinical health services contracts over around £600k for the NHS to be opened up to competition. Most of these contracts will be won by NHS Providers of course, who are often best placed and will win the competition on objective criteria. However the way is open for private providers, e.g. Virgin Care, to enter these competitions and in some cases to win these.

Do you have a link?

Can you say more about the EU directive you're referring to?

Because the EU allows the NHS to be exempt from competition rules as a public service.

Protecting public services in TTIP and other EU trade agreements
Last update: June 2015
Text in EU trade agreements
EU: services considered to be public utilities at a national or local level may be subject to public monopolies or to exclusive rights granted to private operators.
Meaning in plain English
EU governments are free to decide what they consider to be public 'utilities' or services.
If they wish, EU governments can organise these services so that just one supplier provides the service – what economists call a 'monopoly'.
This single provider can be:
• publicly owned ('public monopoly')
• a private firm which has the right to offer a
• particular service ('exclusive rights').
This applies to all service industries, except 2:
• telecommunications
• computer services.
trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/july/tradoc_153614.pdf

More on this from the neutral FullFact: TTIP and the NHS, including further protections the EU wants in TTIP.

Given that the EU has given us the first 70-year period in a thousand years where Western Europe hasn't been covered in blood, I don't feel particularly fluffy about this. If the UK leaves, the rest of the Union may well start to unravel and that idea terrifies me. European countries aren't great at keeping the peace when not constrained by EU agreements... Just look at History. In my own lifetime, former Yugoslavia and now Russia/Ukraine are scary reminders, just outside the EU.

From the same document.

Text in EU trade agreements
The EU reserves the right to adopt or maintain any measure with regard to:
• the provision of:
– all education, health and
social services which:
receive public funding or state support in any form,
are therefore not considered to be privately funded
– services relating to the collection, purification, distribution and management of water (drinking water and water for industrial use).

Meaning in plain English
EU governments can regulate certain services in whatever way they choose.
This can include the way they:
• offer subsidies
• choose contractors
• decide who can operate or invest in their market.

Governments can do so, even if it means they treat EU suppliers or investors differently from ones based in the country signing the trade deal with the EU.
These services comprise:
• publicly-funded education:
– primary and secondary schools
– colleges and universities
– publicly-funded healthcare and social service:
– hospitals
– ambulances
– residential health facilities
– welfare services for:
children
the elderly
other vulnerable groups
–benefits for disabled people
• the supply of water.