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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

EU referendum question (sorry!)

48 replies

corgiology · 21/06/2016 22:47

If we vote to stay why can't we hold another referendum in the future where we might leave?

It comes across as now or never and I don't understand why.

Can anyone help? Thanks!

OP posts:
purits · 21/06/2016 23:34

The terms they took us back on would be crap.

Who's going back? I want to leave. We can survive outside the EU. Lots of countries are outside the EU and - staggeringly, implausiblyHmm - they somehow survive and thrive.

annandale · 21/06/2016 23:35

um purits why the speech marks? You were the one who used the word fail in the first place.

purits · 21/06/2016 23:35

And I seriously doubt they are all "desperate" for us to stay and maybe several countries would possibly be delighted to see the back of us - and vote NO if we wanted to come back.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

annandale · 21/06/2016 23:36

aargh - why are you asking 'who's going back'? The thread is about that possibility, that's why we're discussing it.

Heratnumber7 · 21/06/2016 23:37

Haven't you heard the speeches from various European Leaders telling us to stay? We're a big importer of European goods, and one of the biggest contributors financially. They'll muss us when we're gone.

Heratnumber7 · 21/06/2016 23:37

*miss

Salmotrutta · 21/06/2016 23:38

purits - I was answering Heratnumber7

Who thinks we could get back in if we leave.

Hodooooooooor · 21/06/2016 23:38

Keep up yourself.hmm We will not 'fail'. You are falling for Project Fear

I'm not falling for anything. I'm watching from the sidelines. And you can't even follow your own comments, let alone anyone elses.

This referendum is a joke to the rest of Europe. It's a badly managed, factless, vitriolic, often racist, offensive and nasty joke. The reporting elsewhere is in weary tones of disbelief that such shit is carrying on.

Hodooooooooor · 21/06/2016 23:39

Haven't you heard the speeches from various European Leaders telling us to stay? We're a big importer of European goods, and one of the biggest contributors financially. They'll muss us when we're gone

Wrong way round. They are telling you that you will still be a big importer, but on much worse terms. don't you get that?

wasonthelist · 22/06/2016 00:08

Wrong way round. They are telling you that you will still be a big importer, but on much worse terms. don't you get that?

All the VWs Audis and BMWs are going to cost a lot more? Boo Hoo.

crossroads3 · 22/06/2016 05:01

You are falling for Project Fear.

I think the people who are scaremongering are those who are sending out leaflets with dire threats about Turkey joining the EU.

This referendum is a joke to the rest of Europe. It's a badly managed, factless, vitriolic, often racist, offensive and nasty joke.

I agree - and IMO last night's Wembley debate was awful with Boris repeatedly telling us to "Take Back Control", and Sadiq's desperate "Let Me Tell You This" mantra. IMO it seemed that both sides shouted their opinions/rhetoric at us but nobody seemed to have many facts to hand. Not an academic in sight. It was like the Punch and Judy show.

kinkytoes · 22/06/2016 05:40

Strange thread!

In answer to your question OP, why would you keep going back to the same question when the answer has already been given? If you keep being asked a question till you give a different answer, it's not really a choice at all, is it?

MangosteenSoda · 22/06/2016 06:03

If we vote to remain, we can indeed hold another referendum to leave in the future. It would unlikely be any time soon because it's bad for everyone to go through this kind of uncertainty, but yes, the UK is able to leave at any time - now or in the future.

Binkybix · 22/06/2016 06:40

You are falling for Project Fear.

I hate this term 'project fear'. In other less ridiculous times it will be called appraising possible downsides. Although they have focused on worse case scenarios, there's nothing inherently wrong with considering the possible downsides when making a decision. Stupid not to in fact.

pointythings · 22/06/2016 09:56

What binky said. The leavers go on about Project Fear but what they are offering seems to be Project There There It Will All Be Fine But We Are Not Going To Tell You How We Are Going To Make It That Way. And since they are the ones wanting change, the onus should be on them to explain why leaving would be so much better. Instead all we get is patronising waffle and a lot of lies.

Cornishclio · 22/06/2016 10:42

I am not sure why there would be another referendum certainly in this generation. We can't keep asking the same question with the aim of getting a different answer. Sadly it looks like it will be a close call either way so I am sure the debate will rage on. Referendums are expensive though and Cameron only offered it to appease UKIP voters and get them to vote for him. Ironically it didn't work but we got referendum anyway. It unsettles business though which stifles inward investment so I don't think we will be offered another referendum if remain wins and if leave wins we won't be let back in on favourable terms anyway. I am looking at this as a once in a lifetime vote on this issue.

Cornishclio · 22/06/2016 10:51

Here is a question I have been wondering and no one has addressed it yet. If we vote to leave (hopefully not) we are a net contributor as our economy is large so where does the shortfall in budget going to come from when our contribution disappears? Do they up Germany and France's contributions as they are also net contributors? Many other EU countries don't pay at all as their economies are so poor. Have the other net contributing economies considered that or does the EU have to reduce spending?

Showmethewaytogohome · 22/06/2016 10:59

If we leave and jump into the unknown that some posters are so excited about it will take so long to actually leave that I would have thought it is unlikely they would ever have us back - and they won't need to after they renegotiate terms that are to their favour.

Leaving isn't a flounce - it is moving into the unknown without a map of how we will get there or what will happen or much basis of why we are even doing it

Knockmesideways · 22/06/2016 11:31

We may get the chance to vote again (in the dim and distant future) if we remain now.

I think the EU is going to have to change one way or the other as there are murmurings in some EU countries about the 'noses to the trough', governments are changing, new countries are joining and that brings new ideas to the fore. If that happens there's scope for another referendum (similar argument the SNP has about another Scottish referendum) because there's changes going on which may not suit us or any other single country in the EU. You may well find other EU countries may have their own referendum in the future and that could spark us to look again.

But it will be a long time coming if it's a referendum of the type we are currently having, rather than a vote on a treaty or something.

However, if you think you can vote Leave and ask to go back at some point I'd say it may be possible (very, very unlikely but nothing is ever impossible) BUT, the UK will be starting again. And that means potentially accepting the Euro and open borders (two things Leave have been saying are totally unacceptable).

Nineteen countries are in the Euro zone at the moment, out of twenty eight. More countries will join, eventually. Again possibly using the Euro. We'd have a bigger, and very different, EU to negotiate re-entry with.

Twenty six of the twenty eight current EU countries are in the Schengen zone. If we go, there are twenty six of the twenty seven in the zone...Any new ones joining will be asked to join Schengen.

Does anyone seriously think the UK would be welcomed back on the same terms as it left - not forgetting that (probably) at least 10 years (two years for the legal 'divorce' from the EU and another 6-8 years getting negotiations for trade etc in place) would have passed before the UK decide the EU may now work for it.

In those years the EU would have got used to the UK not being around the table, would have new countries on board who would have right of veto etc, would be generally pissed off with the UK anyway and, if we wanted to go back, we'd probably be failing or struggling because, if we were doing well outside, why would we re-enter? And failing or struggling means desperation and acceptance of any lifeline thrown. Anyone thinking we can 'change our minds and ask to rejoin' is being naïve to be honest.

If you think of it like a divorce, would you let your ex back into your life after ten years and accept them wanting to have the marriage exactly the same as it was when they walked out? Of course not, you'd be used to being without them, so you'd be bound to say 'only on my terms'.

BTW - just for the record - I am a "want to leave but have some doubts about the lack of figures" voter. So no vested interest in saying any of the above.

IndridCold · 22/06/2016 12:20

I believe that if there is another Treaty which will mean us handing more powers to the EU, there has to be a referendum by law.

If you remember, we nearly had one under Blair over Lisbon, but then they decided the changes weren't big enough to warrant it.

eyebrowse · 22/06/2016 12:33

Yes there could be another referendum if we vote to remain. This is a very bad time for a referendum on the EU as so much is in flux currently.

However if we vote to leave even if we wanted to rejoin (a) the EU might not want us back (b) it will be too late the damage will have been done to ourselves and the EU

ClarkeyCat · 22/06/2016 14:19

Can't believe some people think we would be allowed back in later if we change our mind.

The widespread lack of understanding of the whole situation is terrifying.

WalrusGumboot · 22/06/2016 16:26

The EU may not even exist by the time we decide we may want to rejoin (not that I think we will ever want to).

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