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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be irritated with brother constantly mansplaining/minimising?

61 replies

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 09:50

My brother is very big on liberal principles and likes to see himself as very tolerant. I am really fond of him, but he always raises the topic of how our parents are, and then insists on telling me I'm getting it all wrong. So I'd like to know what you think.

For example, I left my ex-H in what most people would see as a very amicable split a couple of years ago (no children). My dad was devastated and developed a set of frankly bonkers theories. We ended up not speaking for months as he and my mum simply couldn't accept I wasn't mentally ill or on the verge of breakdown, and refused to stop telling me how to get back together with ex.

At that time, my brother repeatedly insisted that my dad should be humoured, and explained away the more sexist bits of what he was saying (dad had got the idea my DP must be unhappy with me having a career, which absolutely wasn't the case, but which dad thought was an obvious reason for divorce).

Since then, I met my DP. We are very happy, TTC, planning to get married. DP is a woman. I would say my parents coped unexpectedly well with this. They are quite socially sheltered and have very little experience of either divorce or same sex relationships, and they certainly weren't happy when I was in my teens and came out - though obviously that's a long time ago and I'm quite impressed how much they've changed. But, they do obviously still find aspects of it a bit difficult.

DP and I were chatting about this, and my brother insisted that we were overreacting, saying he was sure our parents didn't think being a same-sex relationship was a big deal. He told me that in 2016 there's no prejudice any more, and I ended up feeling as if I'd just accused my parents of flagrant homophobia. Which I hadn't.

I feel he goes through the world as a straight white man, believing that if he says prejudice doesn't exist, he must be right. It's beginning to strain our relationship, because he won't simply avoid the subject of how dad is, or sit out of an argument.

OP posts:
ppeatfruit · 21/06/2016 10:53

I don't understand why the skin colour of a person should be mentioned at all; Hmm there are plenty of other people (of all colours, sexes and sexual preferences) who are stuck in their opinions.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 10:57

I just reckon he's not encountered a lot of prejudice, is all. He tends to go through life thinking that prejudice is in the past.

OP posts:
Slarti · 21/06/2016 10:58

as if he thinks he's better at knowing whether my dad means what he says or not.

But you also think you are better at knowing whether your dad means what he says or not. You both think you know what your dad means, and you both think you're right. The issue seems to be that as a white, straight male he's not allowed to do that.

JassyRadlett · 21/06/2016 11:01

ppeat, I think it's relevant because the more privileged groups a person belongs to, the less likely they may be to recognise their relative privilege.

A well-off straight white man with no disabilities (I'm assuming the last, please correct me if I'm wrong OP) has pretty much hit the demographic jackpot in our culture, so may be less aware of the issues actually experienced by others not in that group.

DJBaggieSmalls · 21/06/2016 11:02

If he were describing his own thoughts that would be a conversation.
If he is defensively acting as a go between and translating, thats mansplaining.
They are really very different.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 11:05

slarti - no, I think when my dad's had the conversation with my brother, my brother probably knows better. Where I'm not sure he knows better, is when he's commenting on a conversation I've had with my dad.

I dunno ... it's not that I think he could never have insight, because obviously at times you need a family member to point out that you're misinterpreting. It's the pattern to it, that it always seems to be one-sided.

OP posts:
ppeatfruit · 21/06/2016 11:05

Well Jassy People can encounter bullying and other issues at any age, whether they are white, black ,brown, beige, have red or curly hair etc. etc. Some people have closed minds and others don't.

specialsubject · 21/06/2016 11:06

Nice bit of man hate here based on one male.

Plenty of women about who are pig ignorant and gullible. Does that mean they all are? It does according to this thread.

EatShitDerek · 21/06/2016 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

peggyundercrackers · 21/06/2016 11:07

It just is going to be hard for my dad. He grew up when (male) homosexuality was still illegal. So much has changed in his lifetime

and? I'm sure your dad can deal with lots of things and doesn't need you to explain anything to him. why don't you believe your dad? why are you looking for problems?

JassyRadlett · 21/06/2016 11:10

Well Jassy People can encounter bullying and other issues at any age, whether they are white, black ,brown, beige, have red or curly hair etc. etc. Some people have closed minds and others don't

Indeed. But certain groups are more likely to encounter systemic discrimination and prejudice.

A black man would be less likely to say prejudice no longer exists because he is more likely to have experienced it personally.

Note my repeated use of 'more likely' and 'less likely'.

LadyRataxes · 21/06/2016 11:10

I think you are right - well assuming there are some examples of them having issues/difficulties with some aspects of your relationship (you haven't given any examples)-
what you are effectively saying is that you expected that your parents would have big problems with your relationship - they don't but there are some issues-he is saying they don't have any?
My (male) DP is always insistent that sexism doesn't exist or trivialises it in much the same way (drives me mad) ditto class prejudice etc. I think you have to be aware that if you are not part of the minority/underpriveliged portion you don't actually see the prejudice yourself and you have to take peoples word for it

the only thing i would be careful of is putting things down to prejudice when they could be personal - e.g. they are treating my partner like this because she is a woman/black - no its because they don't like her , i didn't get promoted /paid well because I am female- no its because i was crap...

DB wants to think everything is rosy

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 11:13

peggy, I do believe my dad - that's the point?

It's not my dad saying he has no problem - it's my brother claiming my dad doesn't really mean it.

My dad has been fairly open (for him - he does find it quite difficult to talk about) about it.

It's really not about me thinking all men are mansplainers (I don't know how that got in there).

OP posts:
eatsleephockeyrepeat · 21/06/2016 11:14

I definitely see a whiff of mansplaining, or indeed straight-splaining, or whatever. Basically any slang term you want to use for someone who is not in a minority group telling someone from that minority that they suffer no prejudice - when there is a real life person from that minority in front of them telling them they have lived with real prejudice.

But yes, he is also a brother telling a sister about his specific parents. But if you're telling him you feel mildly prejudiced by their reaction and he is telling you you are "wrong" that must be frustrating!

It's not man-hating; the bigger picture is that it's a real thing, this here "splaining" thing. It happens and it's annoying. Brothers are also annoying. That's the smaller picture. Both are valid.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 11:16

lady - YY, that's it. I thought they would have big problems and was pleased they don't. But they do have some worries, which I don't think is remarkable.

They do like my partner, too - it's definitely not that they treat her badly. They are really nice to her.

Examples would be that they worry that I might get treated badly at work, and my dad finds it hard to get his mind around us wanting to have children. We've mentioned it but he doesn't really take it in. Neither he nor my mum finds it easy to say the word 'lesbian'. So you can see, it's stuff at a very trivial level - but I think my brother is just assuming they don't have any worries, and they're completely au fait with everything.

OP posts:
NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 21/06/2016 11:17

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

amarmai · 21/06/2016 11:19

You're getting the " I understand what your b is saying better than you do " right here!

t4gnut · 21/06/2016 11:21

I would have thought it might have clicked with your dad why the previous relationship hadn't worked out given current position!

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 21/06/2016 11:21

While I totally understand your annoyance, it sounds rather more like your brother is living in cloud cuckoo la-la land where he's just hoping that if he tells everyone that everything is fine all the time, they'll eventually all just agree with him and everything WILL be fine.

This is completely unrealistic.

You knowing that your Dad has a level of problem with your relationship and your sexuality is far more realistic, and allows you to deal with your Dad in the best way you can in terms of what you tell him, dealing with his reactions etc.

So I'm not sure that mansplaining is entirely the right term here - unless he's actually using the 19th Century style line "I think you'll allow me to know you rather better than you know yourself" - I think he's just trying to persuade everyone that everything is ok to make it so. Fake it til you make it, kind of thing.

Still bloody annoying though!

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 21/06/2016 11:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stopitatonce · 21/06/2016 11:27

yanbu. It sounds like mansplaining to me - patronising, gendered overtones. If he is so principled, how does he respond if you suggest he is being sexist? He can't possibly know your experience of being a woman, being in your shoes. You do, and are in the best place to assess what is going on in that situation. He hasn't grown up as a woman, lived life as a woman, been a woman in your family. We are all subject to unconscious bias just from living in the society that we do, he might find it difficult to accept that he is doing this, and will probably resist you telling him he is.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers · 21/06/2016 11:27

thumb - yes, I'm not sure if it's the right term either. Certainly seems to have stirred up feelings here more than I intended!

OP posts:
eatsleephockeyrepeat · 21/06/2016 11:28

You're getting the " I understand what your b is saying better than you do " right here!

Haha, yes indeed!

HisNameWasPrinceAndHeWasFunky · 21/06/2016 11:37

I feel he goes through the world as a straight white man, believing that if he says prejudice doesn't exist, he must be right.

there is oodles of this all around me in the world. Often from those who consider themselves to be "liberal / left thinkers".

Everything is STILL all about them I'm afraid.

Keep pushing back - don't leave him unchallenged.

stopitatonce · 21/06/2016 11:41

HisName yep