To wonder where the F!#k a bright child with SEN who's been "managed out" is supposed to go to school?!?

[WTAFisgoingon]

As far as I can tell there is a massive gap in provision for academically average or above average children who have SEN, for example:

• Local private schools (including the one we have just been "managed out" of) say DC's SEN (basically mild HFA with a tiny bit of other stuff) is something they cannot cope with so "it is in DC's best interests to look for a school with better SEN provision"

• Special Needs Schools say DC is too academically able (B grade student, roughly) and SEN is too mild for DC to need a Special Needs school and that "it is in DC's best interests to attend a mainstream school".

• Local state school and LA advise that DC's needs are not severe enough to qualify for an EHCP, so they cannot offer any real support. DC would be stuck in a class of 30 in a not very good school doing work a year easier than necessary without much support at all.....

Surely there must be many other kids in this position - too academically able or mildly affected to qualify for any sort of special provision, but too severely affected to be wanted in the private sector....... And all I keep hearing is that nobody wants to take DC because its in the child's best interests to find another type of school ........ Well, where is this magic school!? I can only assume that children like DC are expected to fail in their (possibly bad) local states until they are doing so badly that they do qualify for an EHCP!?! AIBU to feel this is the case and feel depressed and cross about it??

Without and EHCP your dc won't get 1:1 support. Regardless any child WITH SEN must have adequate provision made for them - that doesn't necessarily mean 1:1. Have they been assessed for an EHCP? Does your dc need 1:1 support? If so I don't understand why they haven't been assessed for an EHCP unless private schools just don't seem to bother? I have no experience of SEN in the private sector.
You said the local state isn't great but can you look at other state schools just out of catchment? They may not be over subscribed so you may get a place.

How old is your dc? I'm guessing secondary from some of the thing you've said.

Firstly you should visit the local school and decide for yourself. I would 100% not take too much notice of Ofsted. I would also not take too much account of reputation. There is a school local to me that has a very poor reputation. However, some of my friends DC go there and they think it is fantastic. Some of these DC have SEN and some are very able academically - so it seems good at meeting the needs of all the children.

Secondly you need to look into applying for an ECHP yourselves. Look at the IPSEA website for advice.

BTW my DS2 has had 1:1 support in his state school despite not having an ECHP.

I totally understand where you are coming from. My son has atypical autism. No learning difficulties. He has huge anxiety and sensory issues. He got high level 5's in his SATS. He basically can't cope with the noise and unpredictability of the mainstream classroom. He is currently in an asd base attatched to a mainstream school. The kids in the base have very very different levels of ability. (Some are still learning 3 letter words) I worry when it comes to gcse he will only be able to do the core subjects and one or two others as the mainstream class sizes are two overwhelming and he will have to be tutored individually. There is a 'gap' within the provisions available. I would love him to be in a school with class sizes of around 8/10, extra support staff who can deal with meltdowns. Who understand his literal thinking etc, but with kids on his academic level so they are able to access all gcses. I just feel like my child is a "one off" . However I've come to the point where I realise/accept it's more important for my son to leave school with improved social skills rather than reaching his full academic potential as he is bright enough to pick up his education later. It's crap.

You can apply for an EHCP independently. I was advised to do this by IPSEA as my son's first statement was rejected and they decided to keep him on school action plus (worth giving them a ring)..he ended up getting one anyway so didn't do it on my own so can't advise. Sorry if I haven't been much help. Suppose I just wanted to say I understand your frustration

I would just like to second forgetting about Ofsted ratings and actually looking at the schools and their provision. Outstanding usually does mean crap with SEN.

I tend to judge a school by how well it supports SEN children.

It's about as rare as hen's teeth though Polter. Yes school would use their funding if needed and if it was necessary for the child.
In my experience a child with HFA won't get 1:1 support without an EHCP.

There are plenty of independent schools that cater for SEN. Some specialise - I'm thinking of More House school (boys only) in Surrey.
Op, the Good Schools Guide publish a guide specifically for SEN. It lists those schools able to accommodate as well as those who specialise.
FWIW both my son's prep and senior schools coped very well with SEN - they're both academic schools.

My son is in a state primary. High functioning Asperger's diagnosis. No EHCP yet, although we've just sent in the request for assessment of need. He has a full time 1:1.

It is possible to get the help without plans and statements. You just need to look beyond ofsted reports and actually visit the schools and talk to the SEN coordinators and teams. My son goes to a school on one of the most grim estates in the city, because of that there's a perception that it's a bad school. It isn't, but people still fight to get their children into the two out of county schools nearby, and the massive primary a short bus ride away. All three of those schools are absolutely shocking for children with ASD.

Surely there must be many other kids in this position - too academically able or mildly affected to qualify for any sort of special provision, but too severely affected to be wanted in the private sector...

Lots and they're being failed nationally.

At roughly the point that you're at now, I lost patience and took the LA to tribunal. We won a fully funded place at a private specialist school for students with HFA/ADHD/Dyspraxia/Dyslexia that offered a full academic curriculum with differentiation plus onsite SLT, OT etc. Our LA were not happy. They had a bloody nerve IMO.

DS was very happy there, got all A*s at GCSE, all As at AS level and currently holds Oxford as his firm offer. The LA wanted to stick him in a 3 GCSE and ASDAN type of school.

The provision is out there. It costs a bomb because it tends to be a corner of the market that private providers have monopolised, which is a crazy state of affairs but there it is.

Sharpen your elbows and prepare to fight.

I totally understand where you are coming from. My son has atypical autism. No learning difficulties. He has huge anxiety and sensory issues. He got high level 5's in his SATS. He basically can't cope with the noise and unpredictability of the mainstream classroom. He is currently in an asd base attatched to a mainstream school. The kids in the base have very very different levels of ability. (Some are still learning 3 letter words) I worry when it comes to gcse he will only be able to do the core subjects and one or two others as the mainstream class sizes are two overwhelming and he will have to be tutored individually. There is a 'gap' within the provisions available

It's just too shocking for words

There needs to be a huge campaign.

What if our next Alan Turing is only offered GCSEs in Maths, English & Art plus some vocational certificates?

You can apply for an EHCP independently. I was advised to do this by IPSEA

Yes, this.

Don't wait for the school or the LA and don't listen to any opinion you think is wrong.

Contact IPSEA, contact NAS education advice line and start going after what YOU think he needs to achieve his potential.

Get up to date psych assessments (CAMHS or private) and get bolshy

I have 2 HFA children in state school both able, one considered g&t but they need support regarding anxiety and social awkwardness. So the stat school provides extra time/ separate changing areas for pe. They are allowed to go in a separate room for tests, use a scribe, have access to a writing slope. They do not have ehcp but I do get support from senco and TAs for the pastoral needs. I think you have to be quite proactive but state provision can be suitable. If you are prepared to manage your expectations and be that pushy parent and are fortunate to have a school on your side... not always possible.

I know, my friends ds 9 who is being assessed for ASD, is extremely bright, very academic, but just cannot cope in mainstream school envirnoment and and demands and stresses that place, think PDA. He has been excluded from one mainstream school, is currently in the PRU, and now has an EHCP, and will be going to a mainstream school which is excellent with ASD in September. All the ones with units here are not suitable. His parents do not know what to do, if the next placement breaks down. There are no specialist schools for children like him. The ASD specialist schools are for those who are not as academic. though dd goes to a Specialist ASD school and they do have a class for those who are academic, in which dd is in.

You could consider in-year admission to one of the Kent coast/Medway grammars? I teach at a grammar and we have quite a few DC who sound like yours (you wouldn't get into ours in-year as it's always full, but demand is less nearer the coasts, as less population growth).

Phineyj my friend would like her ds to go to a grammar school, he certainly has the ability, but he has symptoms of PDA, and an EHCP, how are Grammar school on SEN, and supporting ASD. Her ds can meltdown, become violent and aggressive if the demands placed on him are too high, or he does not understand or if things do not go to plan, or if there are changes, and his routine is not consistent.

JustfiveminswithDacre would you mind sharing the school your child went to? We have an HFA boy and it was made plain by the local school that they didn't want him. We are paying a fortune for private school supplemented by private therapies. I can't even find a state option like what you described and would love to know where it is.

justfiveminswithDacre wow good on your ds, that is really fab, no there are no schools like this locally.

My dd is 9, goes to a specialist ASD school, they have a HFA class within it, she is doing KS1/KS2 level, and has come on so well. She has added Learning difficulties though, but is able to read and write,

I'd love to know which school Just's ds is at, too!
We had no luck at all with private schools for dd2. (She has cp, not asd, but had a lot of asd type sensory issues too, as well as an academic ability (at 5 lol) that ruled her completely out of consideration for any special school). She has therefore been in ms since. It has been interesting. We moved every two years max for dh' job so were starting from scratch at every school (in every county/ country). She had a great start in an infant only school where she was given ft TA on a 2-1 share. The TA essentially became the conduit for advanced learning, as they were able to access higher year groups on an individual basis. It was interesting.

It depends on the school - I would say though that grammar schools tend to have large class sizes, no TAs and are often operating out of old shabby buildings without much space. But if I was trying to find somewhere for such a DC I think I would gird myself to visit many schools and consider everything, as they vary so much. The attitude of the head and the teachers makes such a difference.

It was sensory issues that tore it for us too, particularly anticipating the change on secondary transfer.

Obviously I don't want to name the school online, but I will provide our shortlist and pointers by PM if anyone wants to PM me (no access to PM ATM as on app).

Thanks very much Phineyj, would a grammar school be able to support an EHCP plan, and a child that is prone to meltdowns and sensory overload.

We are in the same boat. Can I PM you Dacre?

Aeroflot when DS was looking at maybe transferring for sixth forms, I did a ring round of grammar schools to ask more or less that. I spoke to SENCOs and admissions tutors. Some gave very snotty "a child with a statement wouldn't pass our exam" answers (I set them straight politely but crossed them off ) but some were fabulously clued up.

Maybe try the same?