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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm beginning to think almost everyone is two-faced. AIBU?

49 replies

MarbleFox · 14/06/2016 22:59

Currently typing this out on a brand new phone while trying to work through my thoughts/feelings on the subject, apologies for any mistakes or my stunted ideas! Smile
I completely understand that in certain situations, politeness and common decency are demanded. We're all a little two-faced, I think. We've all made polite conversation with a co-worker we secretly hate or have told a tactful, white lie.

The sort of two-facedness I'm talking about is the kind that compels people to spend a lot of time with a person, be best friends with them while having nothing but negative, nasty things about them. It just doesn't make sense to me and I've been seeing it more and more lately.

I should mention I'm 21 and currently at college, I actually skipped the "last night out" because I couldn't be bothered spending a night with a group of people who all hate one another (or seem to, from what they've all said about one another) yet insist on getting drunk together. Please tell me it gets better the older you get?

OP posts:
KateInKorea · 15/06/2016 01:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScoutandAtticus · 15/06/2016 05:09

I am 42 and IME it still goes on but less so. This is because I am wiser to it and now choose my friends carefully. Excessive bitching, rather than a one off moan which we all do, is one of my litmus tests of a friend. I have always found groups problematic so avoid them. But it's partly down to my personality. I like to feel I no where I am with people and that I have a friendship, which is not possible with everyone in a group. I have a friend who keeps it light and fluffy with everyone and manages groups very well. I envy her ability to do that.

I met a group of 'friends' about 7 years ago when my daughter began school. They were all other parents and seemed great . One of the women has turned out to be extraordinarily two faced and bitchy. I have sought lots of advice on here over the years about her. It has certainly taught me to be less trusting and how to spot these people. I now don't see this woman anymore than I have to and the group has disbanded. You have to experience these issues to be able to spot them next time.

Chottie · 15/06/2016 06:03

The older I get, the more I step away and make very general, neutral comments to anything anyone says about anyone else.

e.g. I am asked 'goodness, don't you think XX has put on a lot of weight recently?'
My reply 'I couldn't really say, I didn't notice'.

It stops comments that I have supposedly said being shared to all. But not everyone is like that.

NotYoda · 15/06/2016 06:08

Scout

I am just like you

I come away feeling worse from social occasions with groups, so I avoid as much as possible.

NotYoda · 15/06/2016 06:10

Screenshotting

"friend groups" and "friends from your friend group" are rarely real friends in my experience. Your value to them is your role in the group, and if you change in any way how you interact with the group, this threatens the group dynamics and you get bitched about"

I agree with that.

branofthemist · 15/06/2016 06:34

I would look for new friends.

I don't find this in my very small group of friends.

But my sil has a fairly large group of friends (about 10 altogether) and it's like this all the time. If I see sil she is awful about them all. At her wedding they were awful about eachother (not about sil they left it alone on her wedding day)

It's so bad my brother can't stand it when they fall out or she starts talking about them. It causes so much drama. There is a big dramatic fallout between them at least once a month. It's always on Facebook then they are all besties again.

I would say to get different friends. I can't stand this behaviour and don't like being around anyone that's like that.

Janecc · 15/06/2016 06:42

Im in my mid 40's and choose friends more wisely these days. I've been dropped by several friends over the past couple of years for not conforming. I'm chronically ill so I can't do the same things as them like go out in the evening. I'm also not a sheep. So I suppose they can't be bothered with me, which really hurt. I try to think of it as their loss because I'm caring and loving of my friends and their children. The worse place for reversion to childhood I find is the school playground. There are a lot of tall children out there and some, like my mother will never be an adult. Good on you for believing in yourself.

DeliciousIrony · 15/06/2016 06:47

University's a bit of an odd time. My friendship group lived together and didn't socialise a great deal outside of the house. We were mainly on arts courses which didn't have many contact hours at university, so we spent far too much time in each other's pockets and creating drama and negativity out of nothing. By the end of it I was thoroughly sick of the bitchiness and of most of them, and couldn't wait to get away. I do still see some of them on occasion and it's much better now that we're actually functioning adults doing our own things.

IDismyname · 15/06/2016 07:09

I have experienced this is in the past, and have altered my friendships accordingly. I belong to lots of groups, but only on a rather 'loose' basis. I'm lovely to everyone, duck contentious issues that effect them, and sail on...!

I also have a number of one to one friendships that I try and nurture.

However, I saw my Mother yesterday, and she moaned continually about all her friends. She used to be such a positive person when she was younger, so I think it probably gets worse as you get older! Mind you, I don't imagine any of her friends give a sh*t anyway!

OohMavis · 15/06/2016 07:09

It doesn't get better, it just changes.

I went from a college course full of snotty little backstabbers, to a job full of married, middle-aged backstabbers, to a playground full of backstabbing parents in just five years (DS was a surprise at 19, it all happened rather quickly for me)

You learn pretty quickly who's a genuine, down-to-earth person. And even then sometimes you're wrong. There are some nice people in the world, you just have to find them.

I've found me some. I keep them in my basement so they don't run away.

TheNaze73 · 15/06/2016 07:18

YANBU. There are a lot of people out there, with more than two faces

DontDrinkAndFacebook · 15/06/2016 07:40

I have experienced this is in the past, and have altered my friendships accordingly. I belong to lots of groups, but only on a rather 'loose' basis. I'm lovely to everyone, duck contentious issues that effect them, and sail on...!

I also have a number of one to one friendships that I try and nurture.

This is very much like me. I prefer my good friends to not necessarily be good friends with one another. It's easier that way. Close knit cliques inevitably descend into petty squabbles, bitchiness and two facedness in my experience. The older I get the less bothered I am by what people think of me anyway and I always keep a little bit of myself back in friendships. If people find me a bit aloof then that's a small price to pay for not being dragged into any of their nonsense.

YANBU Marble and it's something I have noticed too. I have two good friends who were very close friends before I came along and barely went a day without seeing or speaking to one another, which I find bizarre and suffocating, but anyway.... These days they are less close, have had a few fallings out and now spend the entire time each bitching to me about the other and I am sick of being stuck in the middle. I can genuinely see both their points of view, try to stay reasonably neutral and counsel each of them about how to handle the blatant shittiness of the other, but it's getting to the point where I now feel two faced because I can agree with both of them in equal measure. I suppose I have to conclude that they probably bitch together about me too, although to a much lesser degree I think.

They genuinely don't seem to like one another much and yet they can't seem to break the habit of being 'best friends' and living in one another's pockets. I'm really not sure what either of them get out of the relationship and I wish they'd be more loyal and accept one another's foibles or just call it a day and give everyone a break.

Also within this wider friendship group, a couple of things have happened (not directly involving me but things I've heard or observed) that have left me feeling very demoralised and disappointed in some of my female friends. They seem to want to smile, chat, drink wine and gossip together like the best of friends on the surface while secretly having enormous levels of distrust or dislike for one another. I know we all have the occasional moan about friends but this is on another level and left a very bitter taste in my mouth. I've chosen to step back a bit from a few of them for while before my head explodes.

DontDrinkAndFacebook · 15/06/2016 07:40

god that was an essay sorry!

LumpySpacedPrincess · 15/06/2016 07:42

It's really important not to get drawn into it, or go along with it. If someone is talking about a friend, stand up for them, don't just go along with it.

Choose a few good friends, then just get along with everyone else.

Don't value other peoples opinions too much.

notverydownwiththekids · 15/06/2016 07:45

Ok name changed out of shame. I'm going to be really honest and say I can be like this at times. And I hate it about myself. When I'm like that it's usually for one of two reasons: someone's really hurt me in some way and I'm not assertive enough to deal with it face to face, or I'm feeling really insecure about myself and am not managing it very well. Neither of which are remotely good excuses but may help you to understand why it happens. I'm also basically a good person and would always try and help you out if I could. I agree though that people who are regularly going to do this are not candidates for healthy friendships and should be avoided. The least bitchy people I know have a really strong sense of self, are quietly assertive (not people who shout you down!), and are generally happy in their own skin. It's fabulous to have a couple of people like that in your life. It's also possible to have aquaintances who might be a real laugh on a night out but you wouldn't tell your darkest secrets to.

LumpySpacedPrincess · 15/06/2016 08:22

I think insecurity is the motivating factor. The most two faced person I know is, at times, lovely. She would be there for you at any time, then she would pick apart everything you did and said and criticize it, exaggerate it etc.

Despite this I am still friends with her but keep her at arms length and don't share too many details. I also defend people she criticizes so she does it less around me. She thinks I'm odd as I don't like a good gossip, but gossip is rarely positive.

DontDrinkAndFacebook · 15/06/2016 08:30

That is exactly like one of my friends I posted about above Lumpy.

skivvywoman · 15/06/2016 08:34

YANBU! And please believe me it gets much worse as you get older,

I've got a tight group of friends and over the last 4 weeks apart from 4 of them I've had my eyes opened and am now distancing myself from the rest!

Everyone can be a little 2 faced or have a gossip but when people intentionally hurt people or cause trouble with it that's when it's a no no!!

I've been dying to post my story on here but would completely out me Confused

KathyBeale · 15/06/2016 08:35

I'm going to be a dissenting voice here and say there's something to be said for being a bit two-faced. Not necessarily with friends (I am only friends with people I like - I thought everyone did that?!) but at work. Over the years I have worked with some people who I don't respect, or whose opinions I don't value, or I dislike, or in two instances who I have actively really really despised. BUT obviously you can't say that - you have to be civil. You can disagree in a professional way, you can avoid them as much as possible but that's not always easy. You have to go to the Christmas party or a team night out and smile and be part of it. I would actually say learning to live with and work with people you don't get on with is part of growing up.

Also it's more nuanced than that. I adore my BIL but he is currently doing something I think is wrong. I can say that in a certain way to him but I can let rip to my husband. I still love him. Or more basic - I like my boss when he's not being my manager. He's funny, he's clever, blah blah. At work, he drives me up the wall with some decisions he makes, and I often say so to my husband or even to my deputy.

It's not about being two-faced all the time, it's about knowing when to be civil and let things go, and when you can say what you think.

DontDrinkAndFacebook · 15/06/2016 08:37

me too skivvy!

skivvywoman · 15/06/2016 08:46

Don'tdrink I've seen a completely different side to these ladies who I class as best friends including my best friend off 30 years!!

corythatwas · 15/06/2016 09:31

I think there are two kinds of slagging off:

a) ill-natured gossip about things that are nothing to do with you

b) letting off steam about something that does concern you and is hurting you but where causing a fuss straight to the person's face would cause a major upheaval and possibly end up hurting a third party

c) and related to the second: ranting about something which is upsetting you at the time but where you need to check out another person's reactions before you decide if it is big enough to risk above possible upheaval

a) is obviously not very nice, but you can see some justification for b) and c).

If for instance you know that your dc have a close and loving relationship with your MIL which you want to preserve for both their sakes, and because you love your dh, but same MIL is always making little barbed remarks which you know she could pass off if challenged (making you look like the stirrer), but which you also know are intended to undermine you, then being able to rant somewhere safe can act as a safety valve. Telling MIL straight to her face may result in MIL going NC at a time when she may be getting frail and in need of her son's help and you don't want to do that to any of them.

disclaimer: this is not about my MIL, who is officially the world's loveliest person; it's about another family situation.

Another example: I was out last week with a colleague in my field (but not involved with my workplace). Some of the things said in relation to my next project were seriously upsetting to my confidence, but it was very difficult to pick up on it at the time, because:

a) it was difficult to know if the remarks were intended to be as patronising as they sounded; I needed to check with another person who was there and heard it

b) this was a social occasion and I did not want to upset other people present

c) acting offended or hurt would further reinforce the impression that I am a sweet little thing who does this as a hobby but who can't play "with the big boys"

d) I am actually very fond of this person and did not want to cause upset to him either

Otoh they really hurt me in an area where I am insecure, because I have had to work harder than other people to become established and, despite my age, am not quite there yet. I needed a long rant to remind myself that actually I do believe in this, colleague in question may be more established than I am, but I am the one that knows where this project is going. I needed to hear someone say "yes, of course you should believe in this idea and push on with it"- otherwise, it would have been incredibly difficult to go in and write something good the next day.

Atenco · 15/06/2016 13:03

Also it's more nuanced than that. I adore my BIL but he is currently doing something I think is wrong. I can say that in a certain way to him but I can let rip to my husband. I still love him. Or more basic - I like my boss when he's not being my manager. He's funny, he's clever, blah blah. At work, he drives me up the wall with some decisions he makes, and I often say so to my husband or even to my deputy

Well this is very true and I don't think really think that is being two-faced, but might be misunderstood.

myownprivateidaho · 15/06/2016 13:18

I think that it's normal for people in a group of friends to talk about the others sometimes and perhaps occasionally criticise them. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Actually slagging them off and then being nice to their face - no that isn't normal in my experience. It also wasn't normal among people I knew when I was 21. You need new friends.

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