To not drop this with the NHS

[Batgirl29]

Let me start by saying I'm not uk resident and am perfectly willing to pay for any NHS treatment I receive whilst in the uk on holiday. However, last time I visited I was pregnant and needed to extend my stay as my father in law became suddenly ill, he went on to pass away. I needed to have my 20 week scan and the hospital where my father in law was in ICU was kind enough to organize this (I was going to book privately which would have cost somewhere between £150-£250, depending on the clinic) but logistics meant it was far easier for us to just pop down a couple of floors to have the scan, rather than travel. I made it clear that I was not resident and asked for a price before the scan, the midwives and staff on the desk said they didn't know if I would be charged anything at all but would let me know later, I mentioned the figures I'd been quoted privately and they made comments along the lines of 'goodness it wouldn't be as much as that' but they couldn't say for sure how much it would be or if I would even be charged.

A few weeks later I get a bill for over £700, the scan took 12 minutes! Private clinics charge a fraction of that price but I can't get anyone to see sense. I paid the bill and then made a formal complaint, they have replied saying that is the price and that is that. My insurance won't cover it as the scan was not emergency treatment. I have no problem paying but am really annoyed that a profit making clinic charges around £200 and they've charge me over £700. Wwyd, leave it be or keep complaining? Obviously in the midst of my father in law's passing this wasn't a huge priority hence me just paying the bill and complaining later.

What is going on!?
£700 is absolute madness, pursue it!!

So is £200, how is that cheap? What am I missing?? Where do you all live!?

It's £39 for anything between 16-32 weeks where I live and that's a 15 minute scan and pictures...?!?!?!

What I was actually saying, though, was that the radiology department of a hospital has significantly more overhead expense than a small private clinic located in an office building with a handful of staff.

I understand what you are saying, but I think your argument is economically incorrect. The reasonable price of a service is somewhere in the vicinity of the market price. If your overheads are too high to support charging market prices, that should be your problem, not your customer's.

Having said that, you are allowed to charge whatever you can get away with. The OP has gone wrong in appealing to morality/fairness rather than the law to settle this. And sabotaged her negotiating position by paying before arguing. (Not saying I would have been more savvy, this is all hindsight.)

I would pursue it. £700 seems excessive and you did ask first so they should of confirmed

"Personally I think NHS treatment for non residents should be 10x the standard cost not 3x. Its very expensive to cater to additional unplanned needs."

I do understand the sentiment behind this but actually I think it's counter intuitive, because if the NHS is overly expensive for private patients, then private companies will pick up the work instead, and the NHS will lose out on the potential profit as a result.

The complaint should be about the process not the price. The staff should have sent the patient to the finance office and not performed any services that are deemed to be non-urgent until obtaining approval from the finance office.

The NHS cant provide medical treatment to non-residents for free. It's imperitive NHS staff know what to do when present with someone who declared themselves to be non-resident.

There's a difference between private patients and non resident patients. They're not always the same people. And most non residents only use the NHS because they imagine it's either free or heavily subsidised; there would be very little tourist trade in purely private clinics.

Ask for a break down of costs.

NHS rates are often higher than private rates because they have to factor in lots of other costs like a multidisciplinary team, follow-up, DNA rates etc.

But ask for a break down and then you know what you've paid for and if you can take it further.

cheby The NHS is there to provide care for residents. It is not there to make a profit from private patients. An additional unplanned user is extremely expensive to treat and takes away resources from British residents who are the ones funding the NHS. I think private providers should be picking up non residents needing non essential care and only very complex cases that can't be stabilized before the patients return to their country of origin should be diverted to the NHS.

I live in the US and have needed care in Canada while visiting family. You pay upfront and more than what I would have paid in the US without insurance for the same care. You are also directed to private clinics if there is one locally.

I'm convinced the £700 is a mistake and you should ask for itemisation. I have recently had a baby and a complicated pregnancy with lots of scans. In order to have consistent care with the same consultant we paid privately within nhs hospital. Each detailed scan with a top nhs consultant taking over 30 minutes only cost us £150. Even the 12 week scan and harmony test which is bloods etc was only £400.

I wonder if the cost was £70 and the £700 was a typo.

I've already taken the complaint through a couple of stages and am now left the ombudsmen, so no the price is definitely not a typo.

Thanks for the replies.

they should have definitely given you the bill at the time from the finance dept not just let you go home

i know it wanst an emergency but have they put it down wrongly as that?

I don't want to hijack the thread but Want2bSupermum but I don't understand why an unplanned user is inherently more expensive to treat? Or rather I don't understand why it's more expensive than any other non elective care? Non elective care is by its nature more expensive but then you would charge accordingly. A 20 week scan costs no more for an overseas visitor than for a patient who booked with the hospital at 8 weeks pregnant.

Of course if you doubled your activity numbers overnight you'd have an issue, but we are not talking about that.

And actually the NHS is able to make a profit from private patients. The cap on private patient income was lifted about 5 years ago.

Private hospitals usually employ NHS doctors anyway, just working on a different site. The NHS has paid for their training and skills development. And then that market is lost to the private sector.

Thankfully the majority of trusts realise this and operate private services alongside NHS services. The profit subsidises NHS care and NHS patients benefit as a result. There are no shareholders' pockets to line in an NHS Trust; I would far rather the NHS used its own expertise and resources to capitalise on this rather than losing out to private shareholders.

Wow £700! I think it was very unfair as you were assured it would be less than £200. I think they can then only charge up to £200.

If this case weren't the NHS I think you would have more comments coming down on your side.

Want2besupermum That makes no sense, the private sector is mainly elective planned treatment, mostly surgical. they are not set up for emergency treatment in most areas.

It's relatively easy to make profits from elective surgery and recovery. Medical emergencies not so much.

People on holiday here, british or otherwise, will usually be accessing the NHS for emergency non elective treatment, and it's the right place to be. If they access via private sector they'ld often get transfered to NHS anyway

You know that even the royal family use NHS hositals for certain emergencies (and pay as private) because not everything can be treated under the private sector, nor would it be appropriate for everything to be privatised. NICU care for example - NICU bed management is centralised so that the sickest babies are in the highest intensity care setting. Wouldn't be appropriate for that sort of thing to be "go to your local private hospital"

I think you should have checked to get a definite quote. Try ringing a plumber and organising work then saying it might have been cheaper elsewhere...

Batgirl29
I've already taken the complaint through a couple of stages and am now left the ombudsmen, so no the price is definitely not a typo.

What was their rationale for the charge (is it a standard charge for the scan or were you charged for additional services or at a premium for e.g. quick arrangement of the scan)? And how did they qualify the fact that you had been given a broad idea of costs by members of staff, at odds with the final bill?

cheby When planning management plan for residents who are using the NHS for non emergency treatment. Adding additional users who are non residents increases the cost because all of a sudden that extra person results in staff having to work an extra hour to accomodate them. The appointment might only take them 20mins but there is an awful lot of paperwork that must be completed which easily uses up an hour of resources.

At a time when nearly every clinical staff member is working overtime for free the first priority should be on reducing their workload. A 20 week scan is not an emergency. A non resident rocking up and needing a 20 week scan takes the place of another user or results in staff working overtime which is unpaid. Also the extra cost to the wear and tear of the equipment etc is high. Saying 3x standard cost doesn't make sense for non emergency care IMO. a resident wanting a private scan is entirely different.

As a non-resident emergency care is entirely separate. Obviously you go to the hospital if that is the case. A 20 week scan is not an emergency. You have had at least 6 weeks to book it and it's something that can easily be performed privately. Complications can then be referred to the NHS if the patient can't wait to return to their home country.