To think Obama needs to "man up" to the NRA?

[inabizzlefam]

I don't get this pandering to the NRA and not just by Obama. It seems that everyone in the US government system is frightened of standing up to them.
I mean, who actually runs the US, the president or the NRA?

You are being unfair.. he has tried so many times.. It sad to say but it seems like there is nothing he can do...
Until the NRA wants it.. its not going to happen

Every time I see him do a never again speech you can see how heartbroken he is

First of all the President alone can't override everyone else. Secondly there is a huge problem here in the U.S. with murder. The rates are extremely high even when you strip out gun related murders and no one is talking about it.

Truth be told the poorest sections of our society are being run by gangs. I live in a well to do town. 30 years ago this place was the pits and gangs controlled the town. People joined a gang because it was a job in a town where people thought they had little to no options.

For as long as we let our vulnerable down we will have this problem. The drug addiction rates in the burbs scares me. It's indicative of people who don't see a positive future.

Yes, but gangs wouldn't be as dangerous if they had no access to weapons over the counter.

I do deal with international students and always find it interesting when their colleges make sure they are aware of the terrorism level warning in Britain. It is far more likely to be killed in the US by a child playing with a gun, than here by a terrorist.

New England has its motto as 'Live free or die' - they don't like central govt interference. For many US citizens, the president and federal government are like the EU - they want state control.

That's New Hampshire's state motto, caroldecker , it's not the motto of all of New England. Other than New Hampshire, New England isn't known for being right leaning or anti-government. Connecticut (where Sandy Hook is) has some of the strictest gun laws in the country (mostly passed in the wake of that horror).

It's just incredibly ignorant to ask this sort of question. The American system is deliberately set up to stop one person from being able to make sweeping changes to the way the country is run, and the Second Amendment to the Constitution is a fundamental part of that system. It's part of the Bill of Rights, alongside things like freedom of speech. The same people frustrated with the slow-moving process may well be pleased that it exists should Trump be elected! There is much less risk that an egomaniacal narcissist like him will be able to do lasting damage with the system of checks and balances that exists.

Secondly, the USA is made up of 50 different states, each with their own perspectives and values. It's nearly impossible to please all of the people, and individual states also have the ability to create their own laws, though they can't contradict federal law. Again, that means that progressing towards real, sweeping change is much more challenging.

And finally, what would you have them do? Raid every house to take away the guns people already own? You'd see some real violence if you did that, since there are people who are willing to use their firearms to protect their rights.

I'm an American, and I'm visiting home now. I am the first to say that I wish gun laws in this country were different; the writers of the Constitution simply couldn't appreciate what modern firearms would look like. But the issue is just so much more nuanced than simply standing up to the NRA. It's a very complicated situation with no easy solution.

OP you need to educate yourself. Congress makes the law in America, not the president.

Op I'm massively anti-gun but you are taking an extremely simplistic view.

As pp's have said the president cannot unilaterally change laws. Any more than David Cameron can (thank god!) see...sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes bad.

America is VAST in landmass alone. The uk can fit several times over into some of the states let alone the entire country, that's before you consider the actual population size difference.

Then there's the fact it's cultural, Americas very existence politically and culturally was as an antithesis to European and later other cultures.

Change this massive takes time, and a lot of money and sadly the gun lobby (catch 22) have loads of money behind them from the sale of...guns! (And ammunition)

'Believe me, it's happening, and it's been happening for a long time. We've been making a lot of noise. There's a very obvious groundswell of support.' This is heartening, I just really hope if god forbid trump is elected, this movement isn't stifled. (Another reason to be terrified of that!) I don't think it's a coincidence that the NRA are right behind him!!

Personally I think one way to quickly greatly reduce the number of guns in America would be high tax payable on each sale (taxing manufacturers would avoid the 'what about street sales' argument). America is a corporation more than a country. Capitalism is king, so make it about money, make it unprofitable.

meandmy I guess you don't live here. Outside of the really bad areas the murder rates drop rapidly and so does gun crime. I am in New Jersey and gun crime is concentrated in certain parts of Newark, East Orange, Jersey City, Camden and Atlantic City. Huge shock that gangs are also operating and running these same areas. Another huge shock that most of these gangs are heavily involved in the trafficking of drugs.

Are people so blind as to see that these guns are nearly always not legally held and the perpetrator and victim are nearly always from the lowest two socioeconomic groups where educational attainment is exceptionally low?

So the shooting in Orlando the shooter was able to purchase guns legally. I would not be surprised if this was a planned attack in Florida because of their more lax gun control laws. New Jersey has some of the more strict gun laws and it hasn't stopped innocent people such as DH or our old neigbour (held up in his driveway at 7pm) being held up at gun point. If people want to get hold of a gun they can and will do. The best form of gun control we can have is education and jobs that pay enough to support a family.

Rant over.

Comments section of Fox News

Holy crap, I'm in Texas, even I don't look at that. Thing is, many people where I live don't want assault weapons to be banned. A poll in Houston today showed 77% were against the banning of assault weapons. I am astounded at this, I really can't get it and it makes me feel sick to my stomach but gun ownership in the USA is massively complicated. It's a messy soup of heritage, tradition, cultural identity, beliefs, fears and perception. I doubt that we'll see any change in gun laws in my lifetime.

So who can change the constitution if not the "most powerful leader in the western world"?

Congress proposes an amendment, which must pass by a two-thirds vote of both houses (there is an alternative provision for a constitutional convention but that has never been used). Then in order to become part of the Constitution, three-fourths of the states have to ratify the amendment.

The president plays no official role in amending the Constitution.

'If people want to get hold of a gun they can and will do'

I believe that's true in America, for all the reasons stated and more, but other countries do manage gun control at least slightly better.

America also needs to address the reasons WHY people WANT to get a gun. Why they're in gangs etc. and yes there's gangs in the uk for much the same reasons. Which also need addressing.

Gangs, yes, but many Americans want to protect themselves from perceived gangs or criminals. I know people in texas who have assault weapons in their home (some have several along with other firearms) just because they feel they must protect their families. We have open carry here too so you can wander into a supermarket with your assault weapon strapped to your back. Try explaining that to yr 7 year old as you pop out for milk. It's gone so far since 2004 (when assault weapons became much more freely available) that I don't think it can be clawed back.

That's both terrifying and sad.

Can someone better at googling than me right now say if it's still true that most gun deaths are accidental? Eg kids 'playing' or adults getting drunk and pratting around?

'If people want to get hold of a gun they can and will do'

It would be extremely difficult for a disaffected youth here in Canada, or the UK, to get their hands on an AK47 for example. There are actually more guns per capita here as well but not automatic weapons, no large clips allowed, guns and ammo have to be stored separately and, most importantly, there is a real sense of community, social order and some (by no means perfect) care for the people who really need it most.

Gun laws are an issue. But so are a lot of other issues. Homophobia, racism, misogyny, individualism, massive poverty and violence.

It's worth noting that of the 998 mass shootings since Sandy Hook, 998 of those were committed by men. Women have the same access to guns. Why aren't they shooting people en masse? It's not just access to guns; it's culture and upbringing and socialisation and a crap load of stuff Obama can't even pretend to control.

It's a country where primary school children can learn how to fire an Uzi - see the tragedy when a child learning to do just that accidentally shot her instructor dead.

The place where she was doing this oh-so-normal-for-a-child activity was called Bullets and Burgers.

They won't be getting rid of their guns any time in your lifetime.

'and some (by no means perfect) care for the people who really need it most.' Yes I agree there are root causes that need to be dealt with too.

Healthcare for the mentally ill and poverty (often linked) primarily.

Thing is, many people where I live don't want assault weapons to be banned.

What's the practical difference between a Ruger Mini 14 in 5.56x45, which is a standard ranch gun used on ranches to deal with wolves and by hunters to take small game, and an AR-15 in 5.56x45, which is a dangerous terrorist weapon? The answer is usually the shape of the stock around the trigger area and the length of the forearm shroud on the barrel, plus some very detailed stuff about what is and isn't threaded and welded.

For example, here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15s_in_California

A weapon that isn't an assault weapon by any state's definition can have a detachable magazine, which is the crux of their lethality for mass shootings. Attempting to ban however many Mini 14s and similar are in circulation (thirty million is the number I've seen quoted: they've been in production for forty years) is a fool's errand. Talking about the guns themselves is missing the point: there are hundreds of millions of guns in the USA, many of them semi-automatics with detachable magazines. They aren't registered, and there is no way on earth the US are ever going to go for a systematic gun ban. This is a hard problem.

Bullets and burgers? The mind boggles. So basically it's a question of changing the mindset not the laws?

Bullets and burgers? The mind boggles.

Why is it any different to clay pigeon shooting with a barbecue afterwards?

www.iancoley.co.uk/corporate-charity-shooting/barbeque-shoot/

www.wherecanwego.com/event/920084-clay-pigeon-shoot-bbq/events.aspx

Yeah I think you are right its the mindset burgers and bullets is just not on our radar as a fun place to go is it

Why is it any different to clay pigeon shooting with a barbecue afterwards?

I can only say how I perceive them, but a corporate charity clay pigeon shoot followed by a barbecue just puts a very different picture into my head from the image I get from Bullets and Burgers.

A barbecue sounds like an adult activity - indeed, it's described as "corporate" which makes me think of people in suits. It's also clay-pigeon shooting, so it's immediately obvious that they aren't firing rapid-fire guns, and they aren't even aiming them at live birds, let alone people.

Bullets and Burgers just sounds like a face-palmingly throw-away name for a place that lets kids fire guns. Burgers doesn't have anything like the adult picture that a corporate barbecue does. Bullets could be anything, from target shooting to a war zone. Now you can argue that it's common sense that it will be target shooting, but to me it's no less common sense that you don't let primary school kids use Uzi's.

Bullets and burgers? The mind boggles. God yes!

So basically it's a question of changing the mindset not the laws?

The mindset of a fair majority out of 323 MILLION people! He'll of a task!