to NOT think that these bottles are like 'murder bottles'

[thisisnotthe1800s]

I have purchased two of these bottles for my refluxy baby.

After reading some of the comments on a Facebook post of the below picture I am shocked

A small number of posters have likened these bottles to the 'murder bottles' of the 1800s

Although the straw is somewhat reminiscent of the straw of said murder bottles, to me that is where the similarity ends.

Posters have claimed that these bottles will be dangerous and could cause another lot of bacteria related deaths.

Surely - if you clean and sterilise it properly it will be fine. Presumably they did not have the sterilising methods in the 1800s that we have now.

Someone has said that you can't sterilise a straw. Surely you can just pop it in a cold water solution with everything else?

AIBU to think that these people are talking shite, and that these bottles are nothing like murder bottles and will not cause the same consequences for our babies?!

just5mins yes me too.

They come with a brush to clean the tube so I will try out and see whether I can scrub them.

Though if I rinse them immediately I think I should be okay?

I won't use them if I feel I can't clean them properly, but hopefully I will be able to. I'm hoping they are just what I need!

dame that's the situation I will try anything! Obviously would not continue use if I felt I couldn't clean them properly

Just hoping I can and they help!!

You need to take extra care with the cleaning, but perfectly possible to flush out the tube straight after use and make sure there is no 'residue'. Boiling water or dilute Milton should do it. The poor people in the 1800s had no idea about bacteria and hence no awareness of the need for scrupulous cleanliness. 'Murder bottles' - horrible term. Those poor mums.

So really it was about the lack of understanding of bacteria rather than the actual bottles?

silver yes that's what I'm thinking

Murder bottles is an awful term. I was not even aware of this happening before today.

"Mrs. Beeton advised new mothers that it was not necessary to wash the nipple for two or three weeks"

No, she didn't. She advised that the teat be discarded and replaced every fortnight, and that meanwhile, the bottle plus teat should be thoroughly washed with hot, soapy water, taking care to squeeze the water through the teat to ensure no milk residue is left, then rinsed afterwards.

There were some odd ideas knocking about then, such as not breast-feeding beyond 12-15 months, but you can't pin not washing teats for weeks on Mrs. B.

So really it was about the lack of understanding of bacteria rather than the actual bottles?

I suspect it was as much about the lack of awareness of the need for clean water as much as the need to clean bottles. 1800s babies would have more robust immune systems than us, but there's only so much that the healthiest immune system can take.

liz70 please can you send me the link to that info?
I'd be interested to find more out about this

It's here:

www.victorianlondon.org/publications7/beeton-42.htm

You have to scroll down a fair way to reach that part.

She advised that the teat be discarded and replaced every fortnight, and that meanwhile, the bottle plus teat should be thoroughly washed with hot, soapy water, taking care to squeeze the water through the teat to ensure no milk residue is left, then rinsed afterwards.

As long as this is done thoroughly, this is fine practice and perfectly safe. Sterilisation isn't necessary as long as everything is scrupulously clean.

The fact that they come with a specific brush sounds a bit better.

Thank you liz70

The murder bottles I saw on a BBC4 programme were sometimes made from animal skins and the teats were never washed. I think a modern plastic bottle with all our sterilising tech and clean water should be fairly safe :o

Yes I think they are safe.

I am unsure why these Facebook posters feel that they are dangerous.

I suppose they could be dangerous if not cleaned and sterilised properly - but then again any bottle would be wouldn't it.

I just use pipe cleaners to scrub inside of straws...

The washing of bottle and teat with soapy water was advised daily,with rinsing with clean water before and after each feed, which while obviously not ideal, is not in the same league as allowing a milky teat and bottle to fester unwashed for a fortnight or more.

However, access to clean water, soap, and the cost of heating the water being difficult to attain, or even beyond the reach of many poorer people, meant that even the most basic hygiene procedures would likely have been neglected, with the ensuing resultant morbidity and mortality.

Op - MAM bottles are excellent for refluxy babies and the function which makes them so is entirely different. Also have the added bonus that they can be sterilised in the microwave so no need to for a traditional steriliser.

alis I will try MAM if I have no luck with these.

Can you sterilise them in cold water rather than micro though? I did two MAM self sterilising dummies and they smelt like burning so I don't like using it for sterilisation purposes any more!

I've changed my mind- if they come with a specific brush then they sound just the ticket!

theduchy fab idea.

Never thought about pipe cleaners even though it really is in the name isn't it!

Agreed, silvercat, only as I mentioned above, naughty Mrs. B. only advised proper washing with soapy water once a day, rather than after each feed, as it should have been, as we know now.

this you can! I think it's just a "Oooh look what you can do with this!" feature. Though must say I had the same issue with the dummies but never with the bottles.

Hope your little one gets over the reflux soon!

You could always use a small syringe (without needle) to flush them out if you're worried after using the brush.

alis yes it may well be! I'll give them a go. If nothing else he'll be able to sit up using them which is good as he doesn't like feeding laying back.

Will definitely try MAM next!

I will be a bottle expert by the time he's 1.

There are some murder bottles in the Castle Museum in York.