To think that students shouldn't be making teachers cry FFS!.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

...and that the school system is essentially fucked because teachers have too many pressures and are treated like crap?

DS is not good at Maths. He's not badly behaved but is not good at Maths hence he is stuck in a set where the kids tend to be badly behaved.

The teacher is obviously not a native English speaker but DS says he is perfectly understandable. His classmates however are constantly teasing this poor man about his English. It became so bad today that the teacher actually cried and then lost it and yelled at the kids that he spoke 5 languages and they only spoke one.

I feel so sorry for this guy. He must be at the end of his tether but how can he possibly teach and be effective with 30 students, all the marking, planning and politics. I feel like it's an impossible task.

But what can the government/society do to make teachers' lives easier, especially when you consider the drop out rate or is it just inevitable that with so little money and so many children to educate that the school system is essentially fucked?

[TheNaze73]

Sounds like the teacher needs to grow a pair. If he can't teach properly. Resign

[EveryoneElsie]

Teaching is teaching, not being a lion tamer.
If you cant parent your kids to get them to respect another person and a free education ,the problem is not with the teacher.

[NeedANewTattoo]

I work in a school and love it.
I will say that some children can be very mean and have amazing anger inside them which is awful. I dread to think what they see at home to behave like that. There are others that are completely entitled and have no concept of doing as they are told. But I do love my job because seeing children who aren't little angels soften and enjoy learning is an amazing thing.
It sounds like there's a 'pack mentality' in your ds class which is awful. The teacher needs to speak to the head.

[apple1992]

"I think years ago a lot of these children would have gone to a special school
We still have alternative provision, but it is expensive and only used as a last resort, and often for poor attendance more than behaviour and generally ks4.

[CookieDoughKid]

It starts now though doesn't it? If kids ultimately don't leave school with a good set of qualifications it will make their chances in life much much harder. As an employer I would not tolerate this kind of behaviour so why should the teacher?

[harshbuttrue1980]

This is precisely the sort of issue that made me decide not to stay in state school teaching and to move to independent. The private school I work in has loads of really good teachers who help our students get very high A levels and get into the top unis. However, they weren't prepared to be mentally abused every day of their working lives so have turned their backs on the state sector.
Its a shame - as someone from a very working class background, I was committed to helping students from all backgrounds succeed. Being sworn at and abused every day made that aspiration go, and I now teach in a school where the students want to learn.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Poor teacher, the behaviour of the pupils us unacceptable, and those involved should be reported and punished appropriately. Yes there can be reasons why they behave like that, but it's not an excuse. If they behave like that outside, school, in the community and work environment, they they will not be treated with kid gloves. If I were him I would report it to the HT, and the Police if the racial slurs keep happening, especially if he's teaching teenagers. No wonder many don't want to go into teaching.

[Sunnsoo]

I'm a university lecturer, but also a trained teacher.


I can deal with any kid, no matter how much of a little shit they are. The parents, on the other hand, are a different story!

Usually the worst-behaved kids have the worst parents, funny that!

[kesstrel]

Cody - It's an attitude I've observed among some of my friends, and also seen quite a lot of on social media (including some on this site!). They seem to equate strong behaviour policies with repressing children's individuality and self-expression.

There is also a belief in some circles that there are only two reasons why children only behave badly:

a) They are bored, which means the teaching or the curriculum is to blame, and should be changed, rather than addressing pupil behaviour;

or b) They have psychological problems/issues at home, and thus need support and and a softly-softly approach rather than "harsh" discipline.

In fact, these beliefs seem to be or have been taught in a lot of teacher training courses, which is one reason why senior management in schools are able to get away with not implementing firm behaviour policies, and backing up their teachers.

My own view is that this is nonsense, and ignores what we know about adolescent psychology and group dynamics.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Yes I used to be in the bottom sets, dev delay, slow, tgere used to be a bit of teacher ribbing, but we knew when to stop and we never reduced a teacher openly to tears. I still don't have a Maths GCSE.

[Aeroflotgirl]

It's responsible for the untouchable attitude of some chikdren, which become a problem when they are adults.

[mummytime]

When I was at school (a long time ago) my class was a major cause in at least one teacher having a mental breakdown. In some schools and with inadequate control some classes have always been a nightmare.
This is also true in different sectors - there are plenty of stories of teachers lives being made a misery in the private sector.

It's just that teaching is (was) a private thing, and others often didn't know what happened in the classroom.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Even in a classroom, a teacher is entitled to feel safe and not under threat.

[Aeroflotgirl]

kessetrel even more so to have a strong behaviour policy. After all schools are preparing these children for adult life, this behaviour woukd nit be tolerated in the workplace ir society.

[aracena]

Having started my career teaching 11-16 students in quite a tough school, I found a job in FE and finally found in my 4th year of teaching that I loved it! I just hadn't been able to teach properly before as 90% of my energy had been on behaviour management. I worked for many years in FE and gained an excellent reputation able to deal well with disillusioned GCSE retake classes as well as A level.
This year I returned to 11-16 teaching. It has been very very hard. Despite lots more experience the job is still 90% behaviour management. For me it's boring as I can't make a difference to children's lives if there's so much poor behaviour. I'm sure I would get better at it but personally I don't want to put my energy into something I'll never be very good at. I'm returning to FE in September and am really worried about my Ds who is about to start year 7...I hope he doesn't get teachers like me ( and there are a lot who work very hard and who do great lessons but don't have the knack of controlling completely a difficult class).

[minifingerz]

"Usually the worst-behaved kids have the worst parents, funny that!"

Don't assume.

One child in every classroom has been diagnosed with mental health problems. I imagine there are many children undiagnosed. My dd went through school as a problem pupil, reducing teachers to tears, and disrupting lessons. Since leaving she's been diagnosed with a personality disorder and PTSD, but only because as a parent I have pushed and pushed for her to be seen by national specialists in child mental health.

I felt hugely stigmatised when dd was at her worst at school knowing teachers were making assumptions that we were terrible parents and that we were unsupportive of the school, when in fact I was crying into my pillow every night with worry and guilt about it and we were doing all we could go back her teachers up.

[ChopsticksandChilliCrab]

I think there is something in the phrase "in state schools watch out for the students, in independent schools watch out for the parents".

I am very happy teaching maths in the independent sector. I did teach for 10 years in comprehensives, then left for a school where you don't get a knife pulled on you, students want to learn and parents don't beat up teachers.

[kesstrel]

According to the NUT teachers' union, the key things required to "ensure behaviour for learning" are:

"providing teachers with the time and space to talk to other colleagues within the school, to share information and to empower each other to manage pupil behaviour;
maintaining a manageable class size;
a proactive and well supported CPD programme for teachers;
a curriculum which engages children and supports them to behave well. Pupils who are positively engaged in learning are less likely to have behaviour issues. Any curriculum should contain a mix of academic and vocational subjects in order to meet the needs of all pupils; "

No mention of the role of senior management. Do teachers here think these points are sufficient or should be the top priority for sorting out the behaviour problem in our schools?

[Aeroflotgirl]

mini unfortunately not all are like you. Some will have un dx SN, or will just be testing the boundaries as I did, I also had un dx SN, dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia, which made learning extremely hard.

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

Not all mental health problems cause poor behaviour.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I went to FE college, re sat GCSEs, did a GNVQ advanced, and loved it there. Such a supportive and positive environment, they got me help I needed. And encouraged me to apply for uni, I have a BA 2:1 in Psychology and an Msc and hope to do PhD in clinical psychology, so I did alright. But not all will be happy stories

[TheFallenMadonna]

Kesstrel, all of those things are to do with SLT...

[Noodledoodledoo]

I teach 8 different classes this year - 5 of which are following the same curriculum.

7 of my classes I have no major behaviour issues with, 1 class are a nightmare to teach.

It is not the time of day I teach them (a common excuse - 'it's last lesson they will be tricky', 'it's first lesson they are not awake yet', 'it's before lunch they are tired and hungry', 'it's after PE they can't settle') they have probably an optimum lesson.

It is sadly that there are about 40% of them, mainly boys, who do not value education, do not want to learn, take great pleasure in making comments to undermine me. In the run up to their exam I have requested 2 are permenently removed to work in HoD class room as I have refused to let these two who are the worst have a significant impact on the rest of the students who do want to do well in the exam.

They were removed from my lesson this week and the difference was unbelievable. Students from the class have commented that the behaviour I see is normal for them in most lessons. I feel so sorry for the students who are desperate to learn and that is who I keep on battling on for.

I teach them once a week, the person I share the class with teaches them for 4 lessons - he has no issues with them but is their Head of Year so they don't play up for him - I have had zero support from him except to think it is all a big joke - I am close to making an official complaint about his lack of support.

If I am such a shit teacher that the behaviour is down to me - how do I not have problems in my other 7 classes - 5 of which are the same year group.

I do feel bullied by these students, there is zero SLT support - although they will say all the right things asking for one of them to come and remove a student never works. I taught one of the ring leaders in Yr 8 and he was similar then - at parents evening he was exceptionally rude to me and his dad just smiled - I pretty much knew then I was facing a losing battle.

I feel sorry for your son OP and I would email the HoD to raise your concerns about the disruption in the lesson and your son feeling he is not managing to progress due to it. It might get some support for the poor teacher.

I have also never cried in front of a class but boy this class have made me cry in the office after their lesson.

[Aeroflotgirl]

noodle the parents reaction says it all. Any other parent would be throroughly ashamed and mortified, I woukd have ripped a piece off ds, if I saw him being rude and nasty to anyone.

[kesstrel]

Madonna Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant SLT taking responsibility for enforcing a centrally-managed and firm behaviour policy, rather than pushing the responsibility onto individual teachers to get pupils to turn up to detentions, critcising teachers for not "engaging" children sufficiently, or for referring too many pupils to them for poor behaviour. Central management of the behaviour system is what I've seen a number of teachers (and some headteachers) advocate, in order to reduce the burden on teachers and improve behaviour, but it is strikingly absent from the NUT recommendations.