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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To timidly suggest that Nigel Farage is not a racist

545 replies

Millyonthefloss · 10/06/2016 10:30

Can I just start by saying that I am not a racist. Thanks.

This is my AIBU.

Lots of people on mumsnet say Farage is a racist.

But this is what I think.

He is a geezer. He is a city boy. He smokes. He wears dodgy coats. He looks weird. He says non PC things, like my FIL does. He doesn't like overcrowding and change.

But I am beginning to think that he is not a racist.

What he is in fact is a man with an absolute obsession with British parliamentary democracy and an absolute hatred of EU waste, extravagance and unaccountability. He is totally obsessed with getting the UK out of the EU and independent again.

He is enraged and infuriated by the wasteful things the EU does like moving the EU Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels all the time and wasting millions and millions of British taxpayers money that could be spent in his beloved UK.

I don't even think he is that interested in immigration.

But he is so obsessed with his aim of UK independence that he will work with anyone. So when free movement of labour became the big issue - years after he started his campaigns - he was willing to embrace it. And there have therefore been racists in UKIP. He is not choosy.

But I don't think Farage himself is a racist.

He seems to be genuinely delighted now that he can stand on a platform with Kwasi Kwateng or Frank Field.

He does his weird grin when he is with people like them.

All he wants is UK independence.

What do you think? AIBU?

OP posts:
Just5minswithDacre · 11/06/2016 09:33

That's a specific group in a completely different national context, to be fair Sun.

It's not really helpful to talk about 'immigrants' as an amorphous mass; always good or always bad. Migrants are just individuals and families on the move for their own reasons. The question is who should control migration policy/

RestlessTraveller · 11/06/2016 09:37

When talking about FGM it's probably important to remember that generally when it's done by Christians it's for cultural reasons and when it's done by Muslims it's for religious reasons.

Also it's mostly illegal everywhere now.

Lottielou7 · 11/06/2016 10:47

The far right is a problem in Europe generally at the moment.

BlackRiverLoretta · 11/06/2016 11:14

Accurately said, Kelandry: Well, if you stick to the actual definition of racist, then no. But if you use the leftie definition of ukip voters, conservatives, those who don't want open boarders then maybe so. But people who actually believe in white supremacy? No.

Those who have a hair trigger response to someone like Farage (but not limited to) have been inculcated since their school days into believing that any mention of preserving some quality of life, order and space in our country is somehow racist. They have a name ..... Regressive Left

I'm afraid they are everywhere, in every party and every walk of life. The RL are actually very racist to anyone who is white, even if they are themselves white. That's the tragedy of 30 yrs of inculcation and PC. Racism, I suggest you travel to another country outside of Europe - you will meet real, undiluted racism.

GinIsIn · 11/06/2016 11:15

Ah good. A post that starts "I'm not a racist but..." YABVU. He's a racist, sexist, homophobic misanthrope.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 11/06/2016 11:23

Those who have a hair trigger response to someone like Farage (but not limited to) have been inculcated since their school days into believing that any mention of preserving some quality of life, order and space in our country is somehow racist. They have a name ..... Regressive Left

quality of life? The council house sell off, poll tax, privitisation, NHS being run down, austerity all hallmarks of the right in this country. Sod all to do with immigration. The "migrant stole my job" line is dog whistling at its worst.

BlackRiverLoretta · 11/06/2016 11:41

This thread sounds like it has been taken over by petulant, misinformed teenage haters.

The problem is NUMBERS arriving into GB. This causes overcrowding (interestingly no council enforces the overcrowding statute anymore) and has a knock-on effect on everything to do with everyone's lives.

Brokenbiscuit · 11/06/2016 11:44

Mr Farage also said that he did not think there should be a law against discrimination on the grounds of race or colour.

Farage has publicly stated that he wants the UK to get rid of our existing laws against race discrimination. I watched him say it.

That sums it up for me. You can argue the toss about lots of his other dodgy comments, and whether they were racist or "just" xenophobic, but he has made his position very clear.

The fact that his apologists keep denying that he is racist makes no difference to the reality of what he has actually said.

Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 11:52

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Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 11:53

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Just5minswithDacre · 11/06/2016 11:54

The problem is NUMBERS arriving into GB. This causes overcrowding (interestingly no council enforces the overcrowding statute anymore) and has a knock-on effect on everything to do with everyone's lives.

But only overcrowding in the cheap areas or crisis services

The average MNer can't see it because unless you work or live with people at the bottom of the income scale, desperately competing with each other for the cheapest housing and the worst jobs, you don't see the effects and the suffering (for new arrivals, long term settled and the British-by-birth).

A lot of posters here are only picturing their MC professional friends of various nationalities, when they hear the word 'immigrant'. They haven't seen the sharp end.

The Labour Party can't seem to see it either which is pissing me off no end. They sent me a 'remain' poster for my window this morning. They presume too much on the basis of my long-term membership. The referendum is supposed to be single issue, yet everyone is stereotyping the other side.

Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 11:54

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Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 11:59

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Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 12:01

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Just5minswithDacre · 11/06/2016 12:03

Having seen that interview, I think he thinks that discrimination is not an issue in this country anymore so the laws should be scrapped. UKIP are 'colour blind as a party'.

Does he really think discrimination is not an issue?

Yes, I think he does. He's a prat in the 'good old days' mould, who genuinely believes that everything was better before equality commissions and health and safety laws. He would; he's from a homogeneous, privileged, white background.

He's myopic and clueless and leads a minority party. He's not worth this much analysis.

Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 12:07

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Brokenbiscuit · 11/06/2016 12:13

Does he really think discrimination is not an issue?

I don't know what he thinks, but the reality seems to be that he just doesn't care.

CantAffordtoLive · 11/06/2016 12:22

I agree with him. I have moved from a town that had mainly Asian immigrants, to the point that parts of that town were occupied only by Asian families. White people were 'discouraged' from living there. Nothing against the Asians, I found them polite and hard working for the most part. However, when the town saw an influx of immigrants from many other countries, it was the Asians who were most against it, which I thought ironic.

The issue of leaving the EU or not is not only about immigration. I have copied and pasted this from a FB post, the lady mentioned is not my friend, but these are the reasons why I will be voting to leave.

My friend Lou is studying economics and politics at university and has been brave enough to make her vote to exit the EU known to the world of Facebook. Unfortunately, some of her Facebook friends don't agree with her. I thought I would share this with you as she has studied a lot and makes some very honest and interesting points

For anyone still on the fence regards voting in or out and are seeking a non-scare mongering approach from either side see below - since I've been studying global politics and economics for the past 5 years I might as well give my two penneth's worth...

If you Vote leave 👍

You are NOT voting to leave the European Economic Area or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are NOT voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we experience an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are NOT voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are NOT voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are NOT voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are NOT voting against being able to travel to Europe. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will NOT change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. The British passport is the 1st or 2nd most powerful passport in the world, and you can enter most non EU countries without any visa requirement. It is scaremongering to suggest that EU countries will want to deter British visitors by imposing visas.

Medical and sciences research will NOT simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses, without also funding the same areas in other countries as we currently do.

Farming will NOT lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there, other than the subsidies are likely to better spent.

You are NOT voting against human rights. The EU Convention and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are NOT voting to kick anyone out of the UK. Under the Luxembourg compromise all those already in the UK are legally entitled to remain. You often hear people say our NHS is run by foreigners. This is not only untrue but it ignores the fact that most of those foreigners are not from European countries but Asian and African countries, which proves that when needed, migrants from countries we are not in a political union with are welcome to live and work here.

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You ARE voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that British people did not elect. You ARE voting against a commission of unelected men that nobody at all voted for and yet make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. Why is this important? Not just because of 800 years of Magna Carta or because we fought a civil war over it, or because we stood alone against the German war machine to defend freedom and democracy, but because we deserve an accountable government working in the interests of the British people, not a sclerotic, one-size-fits-all dictatorship which has wrecked the European economy through its ever closer union.

The government and EU funded organizations, and some big business, has come out with baseless fear projections to scare people into voting for the status quo. This is not because remaining is what's best for the British people, its because leaving the EU would be a serious dent in the global elite's strive for global governance and a post-democratic society, whilst big business is favoured by the EU's policies.

LightstepPeter0 · 11/06/2016 12:27

Someone upthread spoke of numbers, and this is definitely one of the reasons for limiting all immigration until the situation finds its own level.

But there are certain facts that no one can get away from. In some respects, running a hospital or a country is not all that different to running a household on a finite amount of money, time and space.

I have a senior job in an NHS Trust in central London and the knock-on effect has poleaxed us. New patients in our outpatient clinics are 90 percent immigrants. The clinics run 5 days a week and have not less than 3 doctors working all day, yet few of the pts are working or ever have been. Who is paying for this?

Just as an individual cannot continue spending and spending on a credit card, at some stage he has to stop and evaluate what can be done, the same with immigration. No hospital is able to catch up with more and more people arriving. Ditto schools and housing.

How can you address a crisis if you do not describe it for fear of being named a racist, so instead of pilloring those who are attempting to why don't you suggest how we deal with our services being overloaded. Come on, let's hear it ..... tangible, actual steps you would take if you were PM. Come on, how would you start?

EveryoneElsie · 11/06/2016 12:33

The Cons were voted in on an election promise that they would limit immigration.
Why would it take Farage to do that?

Just5minswithDacre · 11/06/2016 12:34

Very well said light. That's exactly it.

Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 12:37

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LightstepPeter0 · 11/06/2016 12:39

CantAffordtoLive That's an excellent piece from FB.

I am happy that she mentioned Magna Carta which I suspect most on here do not know the relevance of. My grandparents were refugees from a totalitarian country many years ago, and quite frankly the Remainers have no fucking idea of what living a totalitarian life could be like.

If you don't know your history, or know someone who has lived a totally different life to yours, you cannot envisage what the EU actually is, however benign because your imagination is limited. My g/parents lives changed overnight because those that ruled could do anything they wanted to. You, on the other hand, are running towards what millions are running away from but you don't know it yet.

Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 12:43

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Egosumquisum · 11/06/2016 12:45

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