To timidly suggest that Nigel Farage is not a racist

[Millyonthefloss]

Can I just start by saying that I am not a racist. Thanks.

This is my AIBU.

Lots of people on mumsnet say Farage is a racist.

But this is what I think.

He is a geezer. He is a city boy. He smokes. He wears dodgy coats. He looks weird. He says non PC things, like my FIL does. He doesn't like overcrowding and change.

But I am beginning to think that he is not a racist.

What he is in fact is a man with an absolute obsession with British parliamentary democracy and an absolute hatred of EU waste, extravagance and unaccountability. He is totally obsessed with getting the UK out of the EU and independent again.

He is enraged and infuriated by the wasteful things the EU does like moving the EU Parliament from Strasbourg to Brussels all the time and wasting millions and millions of British taxpayers money that could be spent in his beloved UK.

I don't even think he is that interested in immigration.

But he is so obsessed with his aim of UK independence that he will work with anyone. So when free movement of labour became the big issue - years after he started his campaigns - he was willing to embrace it. And there have therefore been racists in UKIP. He is not choosy.

But I don't think Farage himself is a racist.

He seems to be genuinely delighted now that he can stand on a platform with Kwasi Kwateng or Frank Field.

He does his weird grin when he is with people like them.

All he wants is UK independence.

What do you think? AIBU?

The issue isn't immigrants. Its easy to find a fault and blame them. The NHS is buckling for a lot of reasons, your main man David Cameron is no1 culprit. Secondly is the amount of time wasters clogging up A&E waiting rooms, and guess what plenty of white British people do that!

Schools- another easy scapegoat route. Schools are struggling with low funding. I deal with this on a daily basis, it is a fact. There are not enough teachers and each year fewer people chose to qualify in this profession. We have to deal with abuse, parents with addiction, children acting as carers, quite frankly children with English as a second language are easier to help!

But I digress. He is a prize prat and a racist.

UKIP was formed back in the early 90s at a time when the EU was moving from the Common Market principle and beginning to impact on people's lives - lots of people felt this wasn't what we'd signed up for etc.

There was no European immigration issue back then, as we didn't have open border policy across Europe.

However, early 2000s Blair didn't ask the British people about freedom of movement across Europe and here we are today.

As he is married to a German, I don't think it can seriously be said he hates Europeans. He hates the EU political ideal of ever closer union, that's for sure. Approx half of various countries ie Italy - are eurosceptic too and willing us to leave to make the EU listen .

It is not right wing/left wing to want democracy. Democracy should be at the heart of both. It is ignorant to label everyone a "racist" because they don't agree with big businesses lobbying EU for their own benefit.

I don't really understand why we have to import all these doctors and nurses. I know quite a few bright and capable British young people who have failed to get places on these sort of courses. It is so competitive now to get on a course. Why don't we just run more courses and train more of our own people?

It IS ignorant to broadly label people racist because they don't agree with various aspect of the EU, or immigration or whatever. It is also ignorant to broadly label people who believe Nigel Farage (or many of the things brought up on this thread) to be racist as hysterical.

I would be genuinely interested to hear what many posters do think is racist.

Why don't we just run more courses and train more of our own people?

Best ask David Cameron why he made it damn near impossible for anyone to afford to train as a nurse by cutting student nurse grants.

Why don't we just run more courses and train more of our own people?

Britain trains plenty, but many doctors are leaving the UK thanks to lack of investment in the NHS. The issue is with domestic policy and lack of investment, not immigration.

I don't think he is a racist, but I think a fair number of UKIP supporters probably are.

Eatsleep- there were some blinding NF quotes up thread. Lots of racial slurs, use of N and P words as well as saying the wouldn't want to live on the same street as a Romanian. That is racist

Jean, I know, I was very active upthread! And yes, I fully agree with you.

Since then I've seen a lot of posters saying what isn't racist (when I think a lot of people actually think it is), including NF. I'd be interested in what those posters think is racist? Genuinely interested.

BillSykesDog Fri 10-Jun-16 18:08:23

Well earlier my suggestion its best we all speak English in here was put on the same level as liking golliwogs, no actually worse.

Bertrand Russel, I have seen many threads where people who have said:

" I don't want to un knowingly eat Halal meat" have been screamed at for being racist.

I think people who blame the Tories for lack of NHS funding have very short memories The NHS was in crisis with a massive short fall of MW under LABOUR. Every day papers gave forth new horror stories of women left alone in labour, one MW for three and more labouring women, wards shut, closed and then came the stories of the sudden and massive influx in people from EE.

I agree that there is not enough investment in our key services, but in reality, that's not going to change, no matter who is in charge.

Under investment + THREE MILLION immigrants in ten years = Big trouble!

You must vote brexit!

I struggle to understand the argument

" But British people cause violence, British people Kill, British people do X Y and Z"

yes they do, I think you will find, across the entire planet, humans will do this.

The point for us as a country is, do we need more homeless people? Do we need more people to live in sheds in gardens? Do we need more people who may chuck rubbish into your garden?

Do we need more people full stop?

When you have 100 people come to your party and 1 is out of control drunk, you can deal with him/her.

When you have gate crashers of 1000 people and 100 kick off, you are going to have more of a problem on your hands.

IE with mass uncontrolled immigration for every good hard working family you get who integrates and its wonderful you are also going to get your fair share of bad eggs, who do cause trouble. When your dealing in such high numbers it does cause problems.

There was also a huge global financial crisis in the time of the last Labour government. Not saying that government were fundamentally any better than this, but there are reasons why infrastructure funding has suffered for some time.

Roses you are still misrepresenting (wilfully? or through lack of understanding?) why you were pulled up on your earlier post - it wasn't about language, you posted about NATIONALITY

There was also a huge global financial crisis in the time of the last Labour government

yes there was, so the ansa was to ...allow an unprecedented flow of poor eastern Europeans to come here, and swamp services.

What a good idea from the Blair government. Then because there was no way of counting people, councils were left woefully short of ££ and services were cut, like meals on wheels to the elderly so extra teachers could go into schools to deal with huge influxes of children who could not speak a word of English.

Oh sorry Maud, in my head when I was writing that I think I meant Language but I actually also think and please feel free to pull me up on it that the main nationality of the UK should be British.

Let me qualify that a little further to British Asian , black - whoever but British mainly rather than say Polish.
Is that racist, or should we hand over the UK now?

Maud do you agree that - thinking the main nationality here or language here should be British/english is worse than advocating for .....Golly wogs?

Being the person who found your perspective that "British" children should (for undisclosed reasons) be in the majority in British playgrounds more worrying and dangerous in the modern age than a few Gollywog dolls, I think you're willfully twisting my argument there Roses.

Nigel Farage is articulating what a lot of people in this country feel and have been inhibited from saying because being called racist is probably the worst thing anyone can be called. People lose their jobs if they are even suspected of being racist. Most public sector managers would prefer to run a mile naked than have to discipline a worker who is other than white. Did you know that one of the major public sector unions advises their members to claim racism in any disciplinary situation if other defences fail? Did you know there is evidence to suggest that some people believe only white people can be racist? Especially if that white person is male, wealthy or privately educated?

I will be voting Remain as I think we need to be part of a bigger unit and Im uncomfortable with small country thinking. Nevertheless, I am the greatest sympathy with those Leave people who feel they have been swamped by the increases in immigration this century and believe that the consequences of immigration are damaging them and their families. Can we agree between us that there is right on both sides in this debate and then vote as we think best.

A points system immigration would change dependant upon the particular needs of the UK.

If we needed more people to do unskilled jobs/carers etc - then they would be the people that would be granted more points on that particular year.

The points system would be adaptable and not static.

The Australian system has apparently increased immigration, but they are choosing that flexibility to increase numbers.

We would return to a situation (of just over ten years ago) where every European citizen didn't automatically have the right to live and work here going forward. We would still need and have further immigration. We would have a population size which could short term future growth accounted for and services planned for.

The EU citizens currently here would still be entitled by the international law treaty to their right to live and work here (I've linked to that original treaty on another thread).

I don't know whether he is or isn't and will never know. People know what to say and do to not appear racist, even if at home their prejudices spill over, and politicians are adept at disguising the worst of their personalities. But if he hasn't actually been racist, it's not fair to label him as a racist.

Yup, agree with you Ego.

Most of my contemporaries are primarily concerned with the environment so are devoted remainers.

We are in England. Of course the main language here should be English.