What do parents and teachers really think of school governors?

[DiggerMum]

I am a primary school governor and have a strong background in education and children's services. I feel I have some relevant support and experience to offer my school and put in a lot of hours and effort, as do lots of the other governors I know. I sometimes feel a sense of ambivalence/ defensiveness from some (not all!) teachers and similarly with some parents (again certainly not all!) - some parents for example seem to talk to me thinking I can sort an issue with the school for them (not my role!) or think I do it to advance my own child. I was in a conversation with a teacher recently (not from my school) in which she said that governors were just for decoration, didn't contribute anything and really just a waste of space - according to her, all teachers think this, and most parents, but just go along with it as the government says it is what we have to do. In my opinion Governors are very useful and are currently put under increasing pressure in terms of management and leadership in schools. I suppose I am just therefore pondering what parents and teachers really think of them/ people like me and is it worth doing what I do?

I do absolutely agree with the concerns about different geographical areas having different governors, however I do think a lot of people try to overcome this. For example I am a governor for my local school, but I also advise and support another group of governors at a school which is requiring improvement. This is done as part of a network of governors which seek to collaboratively support one another across a range of schools with very different challenges. There is a lot which goes on behind the scenes and on the most part by people genuinely wanting to make a difference. My work also help schools recruit governors and gift time to staff to support them as governors, i.e. you can take time back for time spent being a governor... it's not something I have taken up as I like to keep my roles separate but I appreciate their desire to support all schools.

"I think it is shocking how much power a headteacher has and how if he/she configures his governors just right then that power seems almost unbridled."

The head teacher doesn't choose the governors. At the school I was governor at the chair, vice chair and HR governor interviewed prospective governors. It would be like interviewing for a new boss if the head teacher got involved.

At one point we were considering replacing the head teacher because the school was under-performing.

I was one for 4 years until we moved house. I was in a school where the governing body seemed to function well, and I found it a valuable experience, hoping my perspective (as a non-parent at the time) was appreciated.

I would recommend it to anyone who has the opportunity, and indeed have spoken on occasions to work colleagues who have thought about it, to pass on my experience of it, and some of the work involved.

Tumble, I think those posters were talking about the governors at their schools, which I don't disbelieve as I've come across similar types; that's very different to 'this is what governors are like.'

I've seen this before and it can be frustrating - OP says 'a nurse was really rude to me and disclosed confidential information in front of my partner', and many nurses come on crossly declaring how hard they work and the thread starts being about soothing their injured psyches. I think the fact some governors can behave in this matter is a valid concern.

Oh dear Bolo I protest strongly to your assertions.

I govern in a school with top quartile of children who are eligible for pupil premium, there are high levels of deprivation.

Our governing body is made up of lawyers, accountants (me), HR specialists and a former CEO of a very large company. Only three of these governors have children at the school, all others give up their time for the greater good.

I spend around two hours per week at the school, helping, monitoring and providing input. I don't provide professional accountancy advice but my experience and qualifications help me to understand the finance information and help the headteacher (who is not financially savvy) make sense of it all. There is no way on Earth the school could afford advice from someone with my experience and qualifications if engaged through the "proper" channels. No school could, we're struggling to afford to have the gate fixed.

The other governors have equally valuable experience and work extremely hard to help the school. It's not always perfect, but what voluntary roles are, but it works well and I know that both the staff and teachers appreciate us.

It's a shame that people like you degrade us.

The head teacher doesn't choose the governors. At the school I was governor at the chair, vice chair and HR governor interviewed prospective governors. It would be like interviewing for a new boss if the head teacher got involve

This is not the case in lots of schools - it really does depend on the location. I was a chair of governors at at school in a leafy, rural village - I have an education background, other governors included an accountant, a prominent academic, a successful business owner and a solicitor. Compare that with the governing body at a school in the nearest town with lots of FSM - they struggled to fill vacancies - there was certainly no interviewing of governors, it was a question of snatching up anyone who was prepared to be involved. Those involved were usually people who the HT had persuaded to stand. There were no professional people apart from the teacher governor, the local vicar and the LA authority governor. Most had quite a low level of education and several were not fluent English speakers - whilst their views are as important and valid as anyone's, it meant that they struggled to understand data and documentation.As far as I could see, they took the HT's word for everything - they were very weak as a body.

Yes katemiddleton, I agree with you that people are probably referring to the governors they have come across; of course that's natural. But I didn't see many of these posters qualifying their comments with "but I'm sure there are lots of good ones out there", as they might with nurses or similar.

You're right, I shouldn't take these comments personally. It's just hard not to when I spend a significant chunk of my precious free time on this unpaid role, in between work and kids, and I read things like the stuff I've seen on this thread

And, they tend to be the schools desperately in need of guidance and expertise.

I've never met a single member of our governing body. They make no impact on my day to day professional life as far as I can tell.

Our chair of governors ... well, I believe him to be corrupt. When his son was facing permanent exclusion from secondary school following a sustained bullying campaign, he bought the school a grand piano and son stayed at school.

I don't know who most of our governors are (I know a couple of parent governors whose children are friends with mine). I don't know what they do.

I suspect some are doing for the CV. Doesn't mean they're not doing a good job though!

Most school governors in my experience are motivated and well intentioned, but have limited knowledge and practical experience of how schools operate, despite doing 'loads of courses,' and are frighteningly ignorant about educational matters. They also spend very little time on school premises during the working day (with some notable exceptions) and are therefore easily manipulated by a deceitful forceful Head and /or Chairman of Governors.

However, the state school Governor system is far more accountable than that of Academy schools, when the Governing body is appointed purely to maximise commercial opportunities.(see Greg Wallace, Greg Martin, Toby Young et al.)

I am a governor of a school near where I work. It is not the school that my children attend, I was asked to stand as a Local authority governor by a colleague who is a fellow governor of the school. Their reason for asking me to stand was due to the school conducting a skills audit and realising that they needed someone with my skills - I'm a scientist and used to handling large sets of data, along with managing projects, budgets etc.

I sit on 2 committees and am Chair of the one that analyses and challenges the data provided by the SLT. These data are all anonymised and are aggregated. My ctte and I use it to challenge the Head to ensure that all children in the school are giving the chances and the help they need to achieve. This is our job - to hold the Head to account.

I have visited the school often, and know some of the teachers. However, as I'm not a parent at the school, I don't know the parents or the children - but this isn't necessary to do my job.

Governing boards are now classed as part of the senior team and our role is strategic, not operational. We do not need to attend events to do our job - if I do, which I have on occasion then it is because I've chosen to.

It is hard work. It is unpaid and sometimes it is thankless. We are under pressure to perform as much as teachers as we are also judged by OfSTED. However, it is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done. I am proud to be a governor of my school - it may be in a deprived area, it ,at have high numbers of children with PP or FSM, but the teaching and leadership is outstanding, it is friendly and caring and if I lived in its catchment I would have no qualms about sending my children there.

Being a governor is a privilege and a duty. I appreciate that there are poor governors and weak boards, but the vast majority, in my experience, are hard working, dedicated people who want to support the school and the children attending it - whether they are parents or not.

Indeed, but something of that magnitude simply should never be left up to chance.

Tumble - I'm the one that said that governors here are a grim clique and you're right that I should have qualified that really. I have a lot of experience with governors and most are great and can be a positive thing for a school. However the ones here (at the one school) aren't. I'm quite touchy about it, having had a very nasty experience with them so reacted a bit quickly on this thread. Sorry you were hurt

I have a couple of voluntary roles and it's easy to feel unappreciated. I sometimes see people venting about their experiences with similar groups. It can feel hurtful but then it's not about me but about their bad experience elsewhere.

How nice it would be if we governors were just "decoration" - then I would not have to go an all these courses, chair committees, make crucial decisions about the school's vision and direction, be grilled by OfSted for hours, break bad news to staff about redundancies because the budget is such a farce, read every policy (reams of them!), understand pages and pages of boring data and generally do many of the things that the LA education dept used to do - and I do not get paid. The responsibilities of governors have increased beyond measure. The government has allowed Educ depts to wither away in a cost-saving exercise and the governors have had to pick up that slack. The staff at our school appreciate the work that the governors put in because they know they do it because they care about the school and the children.

We are not "tame stooges" of the head - we have to challenge the head over everything he/she does - and have evidence of that for OfSted when they knock at the door.

I am shocked to hear that many of you have experience of schools with ineffectual governors - we work blooming hard at our school, believe me. I devote a vast amount of time to it. I have to say that all the governors I meet on the training courses seem totally dedicated to what they are doing. It is not all bad out there.

Oh yes - and we get grilled by OfSted, and if we are not up to scratch our school can get downgraded.

Tumble to be fair to all the non-positive posters the OP did ask 'What so parents and teachers really think of school governors?' rather than 'What positive things do you have to say about school governors?'

Well done if you are doing a good job. Other people's opinions won't change that.

Thanks for the Alma. Obviously, it was silly of me to let myself be bothered by words on a thread - usually I manage to stay more detached on MN, but this one has really upset me. I honestly didn't realise that people thought of governors in this way. Jelly I realise that the OP asked for honest opinions, I just didn't expect to see so many negative ones! I'm genuinely surprised that so many posters have been so scathing.

Oh well. Time to develop a thicker skin and move on.

In my opinion, they treat support staff as the lowest of the low. Expect teachers to kiss up to them. Only have time for SMT.

This thread has been an eye opener for me, I really think/ hope I offer something positive as a governor. I have huge respect for the teachers, staff and volunteers which support our children in the school, know the class I am linked too well and genuinely care about the pupils.

What this thread has made me do is email my head teacher and chair of governors and suggest that I would like to do some additional communication with staff, parents and pupils about what the governors do, how to get involved and consider how we can communicate better.

I've skipped a lot of the thread as I'm in a hurry, but this:

I think it is shocking how much power a headteacher has and how if he/she configures his governors just right then that power seems almost unbridled

Just about sums up my experience. Add to that the head acting as 'go-between' between staff and governors without staff being able to speak directly to governors, then the head can have absolute power.

It all comes down to trust: if teachers feel that all SLT and governors are there to 'check up' on them, or are only there to look for faults (whether true or just perceived), then I think a certain level if defensiveness is understandable.

When myvdc were at primary school I thought that patents should not be governors of the school their own children attended. There seems to be a lot of croneyism.

I am a parent governor, and also charity trustee. I also happen to be an accountant.

I don't do the school run - so few parents would know who I am in the street. I don't think that is essential, as I can bring other skills to the meetings.

Most of the 'finance' is not really that high tech - just choosing between, for example, subsidising swimming lessons or funding lights or a dishwasher.

Teaching is obviously important, but I expect most of the governors have management responsibility in their day jobs - without always being able to do the activities they manage. The idea that you cannot possibly know what is involved in a job you don't do yourself is a bit naive.

My charity is similar - it is in the social work sector, and I wouldn't profess to know what to do with a client - it doesn't mean the charity needs no help with running it's premises, or HR activities for example.

The data we see is anonymous - and specific children are never discussed.

If a specific event arises (ie to do with exclusions for example) it is overseen by a governor with no children at the school.

We have a lot of SEN children, and despite being in a 'leafy' suburb we have the full range of social problems, looked after children etc etc.

Reading this thread makes me wonder why I bother. It isn't even on my CV.

Reading this thread makes me wonder why I bother.

Really? Surely for the same reasons you decided to in the first place. Nothing to do which what a bunch of randoms on the internet think.

Thanks Jelly, appreciated.

Don't forget that the country is run by the biggest group of rank amateurs anywhere - the government.

They never let being untrained in anything stop them from wading in..

shudders at the thought of being an MP