Schools sun policy - am I wrong?

[Originalfoogirl]

Before I speak to the school about their sun policy, I wanted to know if others think I'm taking an unreasonable stance.

As soon as it starts getting sunny, we get a text from the school reminding us to send our children wearing sunscreen. Fair enough, a reminder is good. I also send our girl with a bottle of suncream and remind her to re apply it - as per the advice from cancer research and sunsmart. All day sunscreen is not effective. Yesterday she said she got in to trouble for asking for help to do it and was told "you're supposed to put it on before you come to school". At 7 she can kind of do it herself, but her disability does cause her some problems putting it on.

I know it can be a faff for a teacher to put sunscreen on 30 kids and there aren't enough assistants, but just as they have to help the littles get help changing for PE and for using the toilet etc, but to me, sunscreen is just as basic. I have friends who have had skin cancer.

I think the school should have a policy on this and build it in to their day. Schools in Australia seem to manage and before anyone says it, our sun is just as dangerous to children as theirs is.

I know many people just don't see the importance of it for their children and don't appreciate the risks of burning, but should I take this up with the school or not?

I'm in Scotland. Ours have 40 mins at lunchtime, and 20 mins midmorning. They also do PE outside for an hour, twice a week. My daughter gets out earlier than my son, and has to wait for twenty mins at the end of the day, as well as our cycle to and from school. It all adds up to a fair amount in the sunshine.

Our school is the same, won't help apply. I've been called in to apply it! It's hard, I don't tbink young kids can adequately apply it but also don't think a teacher can do it all for all the class. My daughter is a redhead and had to wear a large brimmed hat in the playground, and wears leggings and a long sleeve top to PE so she's not getting exposed.

I would expect them to help your daughter because she has additional needs, but in the main I tbink parents need to equip their children as best them hey ask to be self-sufficient at this kind of thing.

Some scary misinformation on this thread:

Everybody should be supplementing with vitamin D - most people in the UK are deficient whether or not they wear sunscreen.

All day sunscreens are not all day, the study the OP alludes to demonstrates this, once a day sunscreens cannot be sold in Australia, any dermatologist will confirm this.

Sunscreens do not cause cancer. The reason skin cancer rates are still rising is all the people who "survived childhood"without sunscreen are now developing skin cancer. In Australia, which is well ahead of us in sun safety, skin cancer rates are beginning to fall.

It is not just sun worshippers who get akin cancer - I was never allowed to sunbathe as a child, was properly slathered in high factor sunscreen when in foreign climes, was encouraged to sit in the shade etc. Just had my first malignant melanoma removed.

A tan is not a good,healthy thing, it is your skin trying to protect itself, it also confers very little protection from the sun.

Most UK schools are pretty abysmal when it comes to sun safety, DDs school is another one that literally has no shade in the playground, and no opportunity to reapply sunscreen. I send her in every day with spf50+ sunscreen and a legionnaires hat and hope for the best.

haligh - "Also I can't speak for anyone else but I haven't fallen for clever marketing. I've looked at the evidence that I've used a cream on my very fair, ginger haired child and he has come back from school neither tanned nor burned. I'm very conscious of sun safety having fair skin myself and neither of my fair skinned kids have ever burned so I must be doing something right. Sun safety is more than just about cream though. Good hats are essential. And my kids know to seek shade on very hot days."

Well, you obviously have because, like me, you have drawn on your experience to reach a conclusion that differs from the OP. Who hasn't ever tried any all day sunscreen because she's read a report which says it doesn't work.

You can't compare Australia to the UK. I'm from NZ and I take about 3+ hours to burn there. A fair skinned person takes about 10min according to the weather forecasts. (I know friends who have to wear hats with a neck flap to stop burning). I've never even come close to slightly red in the UK sun. Including being outside all day. My children and I are more at risk of vitamin D deficiency than sunburn in this country. Not everyone needs (re)applying sunscreen. So YABU.

Forgot to say, I don't put sunscreen on my school aged DC. She's barely outdoors. She has a hat.

I do put it on my nursery aged one. She's outside a lot more during the day. And that's only on very sunny days.

If schools had an absolute rule that adequate hats must be worn on sunny summer days, then kids wouldn't need as much sun cream and would get more vitamin D. Ironically it's actually this lax attitude to the sun and hat-wearing compared to places like Australia which is forcing kids to wear more sun cream. Parents can't rely on their child being made to wear a good hat, so the all day sun cream is all they've got.

Cloudy days that might turn sunny are the worst - at weekends we wouldn't put sun cream on at all unless it actually did end up being sunny and dc were going to be out for a long time with no hat, but on a school day it has to go on regardless. Then the sun ends up not coming out all day despite the forecast or only coming out for ten minutes, and yet my dc have spent all day swith horrible gloopy sun cream on, for nothing.

If I knew that school had a good policy of insisting on wide brimmed hats being worn during sunny lunchtimes, then I could relax a bit with the sun cream as I would know they'd be enforced in wearing a hat.

I don't just believe the marketing hype. I've been using the product for a few years with no problems whatsoever, including long days on the beach - definitely in excess of the length of a school day. Not one of us has burned at all during that time, whereas I used to burn almost every year.

Without suncream myself and all 3 dcs would burn (fair skinned). Since using the once-a-day cream not one of us have - that's evidence enough for me that it's working as it should.

All my dcs wear shortie wetsuits on the beach, so we're only talking lower legs and arms, plus face and neck. They also wear legionnaire hats, although, actually the teenagers aren't willing to do that anymore, so I have had to give in to bucket hats as an alternative.

Prior to all day suncream, both my dses had instances of being burned during the school day, both due to sports day and just being out in the playground generally. They were given suncream to reapply, but were obviously not as careful as I am when applying it. Since using the once a day stuff none of my dcs has so much as caught the sun, let alone burned.

I teach 7, 8 and 9 year olds and there is no way I would be putting sun cream on for them. My Union tell me not to and it would just open me up to way too many complaints and allegations.
I remind the children at home time to put cream on the following morning and then at play times to put a hat on and top up their sun cream before they go out at lunch. Even if parents sent a note in or came in to complain about me not doing, it wouldn't change anything. In the case of disability, that child would probably be sent to the office for it to be applied where there would be lots of adults present.

I don't put what I consider chemical crap on my children. Nobody put sunscreen on me when I was a child and look! still here, wasting my precious life energy reading daily mail and mn!!

I will point out that burning is not the only sign of a problem. It is possible not to burn and still be over exposed to UVA and UVB.

And as I said, I have tried all day stuff on myself. It wasn't effective later in the day.

The reason I was thinking more of challenging their lack of policy rather than making it an issue specific to our girl is, if they had a policy where they didn't take them out to a burning hot sun for two hours activity (Sports day today started at 1pm til 3pm, it's currently 25.5 degrees) and did have a hats on policy, it would solve a problem for more than just her. I'm not usually so self centred I just want her to be safe. It also is clear that education is necessary for our young ones as many adults seem not to get any of the actual advice that is available on the basis that "mine was alright" - something they won't know til the skin cancer develops in thirty years time.

All day lotion (at least the one ive tried) doesnt work on me or ds1

Seems to be fine on dd and ds2 but i prefer the one you reapply

Ds1 (17) has factor 50

I'm honestly stunned by the opinions on this thread.

Itsallgoingtobefine - you are spot on.

stripeyfish

Is that a school policy or a you policy? I'd want the school to follow something along those lines (being prepared to help the littler ones with cream if necessary) with some thought going in to when they have outside time and whether the playground has shade.

Wondering about safe guarding/other adults etc when it's also schools policy for all the children to get changed for PE in the classroom - many bare bums show there! I also wonder what the hell the world has come to when a teacher can't be trusted to apply cream to a child. But that's a different topic.

I'm more worried about r fact that DS primary don't insist the kids wear heats in the bright lunch time sun, when playing on their field. There is very little shade.

DS refuses to wear his hat, but would wear it if told by staff. He won't apply suncream (he has ASD) and won't have it on his skin but a friend recently told me that Nivea (I think) do a roll on that kids can easily reapply without mess.

You could try that?

Forgot to say, I'm not keen on suncream....I'd rather they stay in the shade when it's really hot rather than slather cream on.

Have you seen the long list of chemicals in it?

People are spending all day in the sun! Sunscrean does not make the sun safe, spending all day in even the UK levels of sun is not a very good idea.

In Australia, which is well ahead of us in sun safety, skin cancer rates are beginning to fall.

This is misinformation. The rates fell slightly or seem to be stabalising slightly from about 2010 to 2012, but were still higher than they were in 2009 and all of those rates were higher than they were in 2000. Every year since 2000 the skin cancer death rate has risen and this, despite the whole country being sun savvy and using suncream since the 80's. This suggests that suncream alone does not prevent skin cancer.

In fact suncream gives a false sense of safety. Avoid the sun, never go in the sun between 11-4 and use shade, parasols and hats. It's about time British schools started to improve their sun safe policies. Even if it means they buy in a heap of gazebos and change the playtimes during the summer months.

It is school policy not to apply cream but i think just common sense to remind the children about doing it and wearing a hat. Our school has lots of shade built in to the playground which is lucky as despite reminders and texts home I'd estimate that only about a quarter bring hats and the vast majority of those are only baseball caps.

Sorry forgot to reply to the seconds part of your post. As for safeguarding during changing for p.e. there are no bare bums as they keep pants on during pe and I certainly wouldn't be touching a child then, with the exception of top buttons when they are just about fully dressed.

Ok, I was trying to be helpful but you don't seem open to that, OP.

I wish you luck with your discussion with the school - try to avoid being as snippy with them as you've been on here and you should get a good result.

OP why did you post this in AIBU? Even if you get the teacher to put cream on your child she will still be at risk of burning around her eyes where you can't put cream if she doesn't keep in the shade/wear a hat.

I'm confident that my kids who have never been allowed to burn, wear sun hats, have cream applied and spend the majority of their lunchtimes on benches under sun parasols are adequately protected thanks. I mean I could insist they sit in the hall with the curtains closed in a suit of armour but that could be considered a little excessive.

Where does it say that the (decent) once a day sunscreen isn't any good? That's what my kids' school recommends - either the once a day stuff, applied liberally, or go in at lunchtime to reapply.

We've been using the once a day stuff for the last 3 years, both at school and at home, and not had one single incident of burning, although I'm aware that doesn't always mean damage isn't being done...

Avoid the sun, never go in the sun between 11-4 and use shade, parasols and hats.

The problem is that, although we're supposed to be avoiding the sun, clothing and lifestyle have not really caught up with that. Adult women in particular are still under pressure to dress and behave as if it's the carefree sun-worshipping 70s, so generally no hats, skimpy clothes, a tan (even if fake). We're supposed to enjoy being out all day on the sunniest days and deliberately choosing to sit in the shade is seen as a bit odd.

It'll be easier to manage sun exposure in a sensible way without loads of sun cream, if clothing and lifestyle ever catch up and we all get a bit more Edwardian! If proper UV parasols in a range of modern sizes and styles were sold routinely next to handbags in Accessorize, for instance. They are brilliant things because you don't have to choose a hat if you've got a big head and mess up your hair, and you can always carry one just in case, and you don't have to just depend on sun cream. But at the moment we're still supposed to be happy with lots of sun exposure, and just avoid it by stealth using sun cream, so there isn't the demand for things like parasols, even though they're really handy.

Spending all day on the beach, never on the hottest days of the year mind-you is one of the few freedoms my dcs get. They don't spend the whole day in full sunlight, we never choose to do it on baking hot days with no cloud cover, we are careful, they are mostly covered, take cover-up shirts, wear hats and we have a large UV protected beach shelter we all fit in for snacks, lunch and breaks from the sun. The teens will spend quite a long time having a nap in there and dd spends a lot of time sitting in the shade of it digging and building sandcastles. We also have a couple of windbreaks that provide shade for us. The beach we go to every year is mostly deserted and backs onto a large forest, so a proportion of the day is spent walking the dogs or just having 'adventures' in there.

These are special times for our family, that beach is the only place my ASD teen ever feels totally relaxed and free and while I will do what I can to protect my dcs from the sun - including listening to and taking on board some of the information on this thread, it's not something I would ever want to take away from them.

I do take the point that not burning isn't necessarily an indication of full protection from UVA/UVB and this thread has made me think about that and reconsider a reapplication if we're out for a long time.

Barring someone that doesn't bother at all and has dcs that regularly get burned I would never judge another parent for their choices. Most people are simply trying to do their best for their dcs after all. I can't say I am happy about the tone of much of this thread, but I do admit that it will have been a useful exercise if a few people, such as myself learn something and perhaps adjust what they're doing with regard to sun protection as a result.

As for the original AIBU? Now the op has pointed out that her dd's school as the pupils outside in the heat for 2 hours or more at at time, then I would say she is NBU to approach the school and ask them to consider a more robust sun-safe policy/plan.

My dd's school always schedules sports day in the morning, straight after assembly, when the sun is not as strong and send a message home for parents to apply suncream before pupils go to school, as well as proving an appropriate, sunhat, legionnaire or floppy brimmed. To have sports day after lunch in the summer is asking for trouble, especially if they don't already have robust procedures for hat wearing and sun-cream application.

Where does it say that the (decent) once a day sunscreen isn't any good?

British Association of Dermatologists for a start...

"You may be aware of some sun protection products which offer 8+ hours of protection from one application. In relation to said products it is important to remember that the majority of us do not apply sunscreen appropriately. We often apply suncreen too thinly, at insufficent intervals and tend to miss sections of difficult to reach areas such as the back. When sun protection products are tested for protection ratings they are applied correctly (liberally and regularly), if we do not follow the same practice then we will not be affored the full strength of protection.

We also often overlook factors which cause accidental and premature removal of sun protection products. Exposure to water, sweating, towel drying and any form of abrasion can remove sun protectors from the surface of the skin and leave it exposed.

The primary issue with once-a-day sun protectors is that they do not account for the afformentioned poor application and accidental removal. If a section of skin is accidentally missed in the initial application or has its protection removed then it will fall subject to raw sun exposure. We generally recommend that sunscreen is reapplied liberally ever couple of hours to ensure that any exposed patches are protected. "

www.bad.org.uk/for-the-public/skin-cancer/sunscreen-fact-sheet#one-application-sunscreen

Arguing here about whether a teacher applying sun cream to their pupils is a safe guarding issue or not is a moot point. The fact remains that a teacher, even with a TA to assist, would not have time to apply cream properly to 30 kids each time they had to take them outside, and the guide lines around safe guarding are there to protect staff and pupils in equal measure.

I agree with OP that she needs to have a word about the teacher, but keep it about making sure DD is wearing her hat when ever spending time out doors at school OR have help to apply cream to her face because of her specific disabilities. Suggest they don't keep kids in the direct sun for long periods without a hat. Other schools manage this.

I really wouldn't bring an argument about safe guarding issues anywhere near it though; with regards to teachers and staff being made to be responsible for applying sun cream to whole class loads of kids.