AIBU - We’re struggling to get by on £200,000 a year

[BreakingDad77]

next.ft.com/content/d6f1e58e-20c9-11e6-aa98-db1e01fabc0c

Just actually gobsmacked by her comments -

“In theory, with our household income, we are in the top 5 per cent of the UK population and yet it does not feel that way,” she says. “If you’re earning millions of pounds, then you’re OK — and at the other end of the spectrum you get everything paid for. We are caught in the middle where we are paying for everything.”

Yeah because you know those on benefits get such a cushy deal...WTAF

Just all feeds into why UK is one of the mist unequal countries in Europe.

Its ironic as with the EU ref Brexiters going on about how all the other EU countries are crap and yet we have some much bigger problems closer to home.

The woman is insane. Even if, with all the extra costs factored in, they are left with 5k a month, that is plenty to live on, especially in London which is so rich with free child-centred activities.

What celtic said.

If you have enough money to live in a house you like, cover your living costs, have an annual holiday, save a bit and not lie awake worrying about how to cover occasional unexpected bills then (by the standards I grew up with) you are indeed rich. Not to mention the luxury of living in a country where paying taxes means I can rely on clean water, rubbish collections, medical care, reliable power supplies, a fire service, education for my DDs etc etc.

Of course life throws up other worries but I hope I am never so rich/smug/ungrateful that I stop appreciating how very, very lucky I am. Unlike some people.

Of course life throws up other worries but I hope I am never so rich/smug/ungrateful that I stop appreciating how very, very lucky I am. Unlike some people.

Some people get rich through luck. However, for most of us who don't inherit money, win lottery, etc. we do it through hard work, not luck.

Call it luck or call it being given the foundations to achieve, but advantages early on definitely have a huge part to play in one's financial success. Who you know, whether you were raised with means, being crafted by your private school into believing you can achieve it all: these factors are indelibly marked into a person's character from an early age.

I worked bloody hard at school, achieved three As at A-level, but my hard work and determination only got me so far professionally, whereas my husband (whose father is a retired CFO) already had an advantage, far as I'm concerned, by the time he hit the workplace.

Hilarious article, but it does have some serious points to make. Ignore the figures of the family involved and it actually affects quite a large chunk of us (not me, sadly... I will never be in that earnings bracket unless something extraordinary happens). We all know the issues surrounding schools - particularly primary schools and catchment areas/entrance requirements for those with OFSTED ratings that are anywhere near decent. I am sure most of us will know of at least one family who moved to get into the relevant catchment area - whether it was a temporary move into rented property or buying a second home/moving home permanently. The thing is, we all face working for longer and as the government lowers the threshold for getting benefits/assistance, it will soon become an issue for our children (if it isn't already). More and more of us are moving out of the traditional work ethic and into freelance or starting up our own businesses. And as with lower earners, many of those being coerced into creating our own start-ups/working part-time or freelance/contract work, are women.
"Low-income families across the UK will find it hard to stomach such sentiments after six years of public spending reductions and cuts to benefits, alongside the effects of a slow economic recovery. Incomes for the top tenth of earners confer life choices and career opportunities not available to those at the bottom of the scale."
And yes, I do find it hard, but it doesn't stop me from recognising that this is a universal problem not just one which belongs to a family who feel that struggling on £200k is an issue. If more people are hanging on to their jobs for longer where will the next generation get their promotions/their work?

MrsDeVere: I referred to those of us in our 30s with pre-school age children. You are in your 40s with school age children. If you paid some attention to the specifics you would see they are not the same. Do you and your husband own where you live? If so, in what year did you buy it?

As for reducing hours, it doesn't work like that for many/most of us in professional jobs or who are self-employed. There are so many people on this site who have this idea that all jobs are strictly 9-5 or whatever. That's not the case for most of us. Personally, I would be happy to work half the hours for half the pay (i.e. £100k). The next £100k I earn bears an effective tax rate of over 50% because of loss of personal allowance and pension tax relief. However, the nature of the work I do is such that I couldn't find a job that would allow me to work 30 hours a week instead of 60.

Hello retrorobot - so, here I am. A woman in her 30s with one just school age child and one pre-schooler in childcare (daycare, note not nanny because we couldn't afford that, even a nanny share was prohibitive when we looked into it)
Living in an untrendy but set to be on the rise London suburb (zone 4) in a house we bought 2.5 yrs ago...
On a joint pre-tax income of just about £60k per year.
We have to be very very careful with our money, but we definitely don't go without and I have chosen to work part time in my career that I love, mostly self-employed - v flexible hours etc
Husband works in the arts - neither of us in financial services or traditional 'professions'
We actually consider ourselves v v lucky to be able to have a lifestyle (I.e. Not killing ourselves to work all the hours and sacrificing time with our kids etc) that we have chosen.

I think it's absolutely hilarious that so many posters think it's essential to have vast incomes to 'survive' in London.
We are not eligible for any benefits / tax credits except child benefit btw

cantseemtohaveitall: Fair play to you, but I would like to know:

• How old your husband is
• Whether you have you received any financial/childcare support from family

As I said in my previous post, As for reducing hours, it doesn't work like that for many/most of us in professional jobs or who are self-employed. the nature of the work I do is such that I couldn't find a job that would allow me to work 30 hours a week instead of 60. Similarly the nature of the work my sister does is such that she can't have flexible hours - there isn't flexibility re when a donated organ is available for transplant.

If you read my earlier post you would see that I was very clear in saying that for some types of jobs (e.g. teaching) there is a trade off between
salary and hours/flexibility. However, there are jobs where that trade off goes the other way - and in those cases these days in London the extra pay is being taxes at 40%+ which means that people need to get quite a bit more for it to compensate.

"200k is top 1% for those of us who declare it. What about those who don't?
Offshore accounts anyone?"
Most Londoners with two incomes totalling £200k have absolutely no way to hide their income from HMRC and they pay heaps of tax. As someone said above about half of some of it is taken in tax. The newspapers have not done a very good job in explaining offshore earnings. First of all if you arep aid under PAYE as most Londoners with two £100k incomes are then you have no ability whatsoever to avoid your 42% tax/NI bill (47% to effective 63% if you are over £150k). The employer takes it from you. If you happen to be an accountancy partner and are self employed you will be struck off if you don't pay your tax and have to have provable UK income in order to get a mortgage anyway and show your tax returns to the mortgage company so if you want to be housed you would have to pay full UK tax. Secondly it is not illegal to have money in a bank outside the UK - plenty of people whose companies send them to work in France or Hong Kong have to have a
bank account in that country . They are not trying to evade tax and they declare all the income on their UK tax return and pay tax on it.

(Yes a very very few people of the mega rich category with loads of spare cash may try illegally to evaade it and those people who get cash in h and but your typical London professional with a joint family income of £200k is one of the core people who are keeping those less fortunate than they are - these £200kers are absolutely vital in relation to tax revenues in keeping the welfare state going).

retro there is an element of luck for almost everyone. For a start the luck to be born intelligent in a country where you can access a good education, perhaps with the parents to help you make the most of it. The luck not to have to overcome severe disability/illness or look after children with same. The luck to get the first job /work experience /contact. I know these don't all apply to everyone but. There are people who work incredibly hard who will never have what we have, so don't kid yourself you deserve it.

Agree with celtic

It can be painful to admit but luck isnt always being born into a rich family or a lottery win

The 'reduce your hours' suggestion always makes me roll my eyes in despair. I could reduce my hours, but doing so would mean handling the same amount of work for less money. One of my colleagues tried this. Only very briefly - he went back to FT within 9 months.

My husband earns just over £20k and we don't get any tax credits only child benefit! I wish we had a bit extra coming in. We managed when I was working too (I'm on a sabbatical) but that was at the detriment of my mental health and having a very sick baby. Some people should count their blessings.

If you have been stupid and saved some money you get thoroughly punished. If you have been sensible and spent every penny you got, you are rewarded with enough benefits to live comfortably.

Retro - in answer to previous - my husband is 39 and has basically never had any money to speak of(!) being the idealistic academic arts type that he is...
But I will confess that we did receive help in putting down the deposit for our house from my parents. So of course that puts us in a different boat from many others on the same income level as us.

We earn about 25k between us, but we pay no money for rent or mortgage. We run two cars as well.

What MrsD said. Perhaps if people spent more time thinking about everything they do have, instead of what they don't, they'd be happier.
I will probably never own a house, even in my cheap area. I have no spare cash. When my car breaks down I choose between paying a bill and fixing it. I had no washing machine for a year as I couldn't afford a new one.
And I still count myself bloody lucky. Lucky that I have a roof over my head, lucky I have a car at all, lucky that I have running water so I can hand wash.
People need to get over themselves.

People are indeed happier in life if they think about what they have rather than what they don't. It works for me. Also being jealous of others never makes you happy either. It's not surprising most religions make jealousy and envy sins and indeed moaning. It's a fairly pointless activity. Just get on and act rather than moan. Find routes out of a situation you don't like and if you can't change it put up with it.

jenny is right in a sense and that's why the Tories got in actually because so many people feel like that and it's being tackled, or at least the state is trying. However it is worth putting in the effort as you can get above and beyond the level where it's hardly worth working full time if you pick the right career.

“If you’re earning millions of pounds, then you’re OK — and at the other end of the spectrum you get everything paid for. We are caught in the middle where we are paying for everything.”

Gobsmacked. What planet is this woman from?
It is incredibly difficult to manage these days and cope with all the stresses and difficulties caused by the financial implications of having millions of pounds. Deciding which offshore fund to park it in can cause high blood pressure all on its own.

(I'm joking of course but she might as well have said this - it is as truthful as her stance )

That to me was shocking to read. Our joint income is around £25k we don't get benefits. Surely we are the "squeezed middle" Admittedly J could work more than I do, but I chose to be at home more with my 3 children and go without things I could buy if we earned more money. We do have 2 cars also. It is essential where we live. I think the lady writing the article has probably worked hard to get where she is, but she is not in the squeezed middle. I would like to see how she would get on on a more "normal wage"