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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not want a breech vaginal birth?

76 replies

jonsnowssocks · 02/06/2016 16:00

I live in France, so dealing with the French system rather than the NHS.

I'm 36 weeks pregnant and at my last scan baby was breech. Routine appt with anaesthetist was today, and I've been told that if the baby stays breech I won't have the option of a planned c-section. They will try to deliver the baby vaginally and if there is a problem have an emergency c-section.

I really don't want a c-section - have been hoping all along for a natural birth with the least intervention possible - but given the situation and research on breech births I would much rather have a planned section then an emergency one, or even a vaginal breech.

I never thought I'd be the kind of person who'd go against what the doctor said was best, but this has really scared me. The anesthetist said the only thing I could do would be to discuss with the doctor while I'm in labour and they might agree to an emergency c-section but equally might push on with a vaginal breech even if it's expressly against my wishes.

AIBU to want a planned c-section if the baby is still breech?

OP posts:

DrasticAction · 02/06/2016 17:14

I would go back, speak to someone else, even if they push breach birth there must be a way of speaking to someone else.

they try and fob you off whereever you are.

VagueIdeas · 02/06/2016 17:17

I wouldn't agree to a vaginal breech birth. Nope.

Wouldn't consent to an ECV either.

Noisylion · 02/06/2016 17:17

I can honestly say that apart from the fact that it was treated as an emergency situation, it wasn't any different in terms of pain or the pushing part.

SquinkiesRule · 02/06/2016 17:19

Good luck OP I hope the baby turns soon.
Have you tried doing the exercises to help turn the baby.
www.wikihow.com/Turn-a-Breech-Baby
My OB/GYN used to turn the babies using acupressure, I wish I had known him before I had two c-sections, both my breech babies weren't discovered as breech until I was in labour.

MyFriendsCallMeOh · 02/06/2016 17:39

Mine was head down at 38 weeks, breech at 39, head down at 40 weeks and breech at 41 weeks (all proven by ultrasound). Born by CS in a country where breech births are not performed.

Start cleaning floors on hands and knees, do handstands in your local pool and book moxibustion. They all worked for me (and my difficult baby!) and babies can turn late.

blackbirdmilkshake · 02/06/2016 17:44

breech is a variation on 'normal'

fruitpastille · 02/06/2016 17:58

2 of my babies have been breech despite trying everything including moxibustion to turn them. I think here they are more likely to let you have a natural birth if you have given birth previously but since I hadn't a section was strongly recommended. I tried ecv the first time but having read more it I'm not sure it's the best idea. It was quite unpleasant to be honest. Hope things work out for you.

Somewhereundertheduvet · 02/06/2016 18:32

Word of warning if you do try to have your baby turned by ECV - shave your pubes !!
My obstetrician was a large muscular lady who pushed relentlessly on my lower abdomen to try to push Dd up and out of my pelvis so that she could be turned.
The pressure on my stomach didn't hurt a bit but when she accidentally caught my pubes with the heel of her hands and pushed down and then up she pulled them out by the roots!
Ow ow ow!!

FlyingUnicorn · 02/06/2016 18:49

I would opt for a section for a breech birth. My DC was undiagnosed (complete) breech and I ended up having an EMCS. A friend had a vaginal breech birth not long before and her DC died as a result. Admittedly the U.K. does not have many HCP who are trained in dealing with breech births and that adds to why it is so risky to not have a section. If your baby is a frank breech, I believe it is not as risky to give birth vaginally.

Noisylion · 02/06/2016 19:00

Flyingunicorn that's awful. What happened ?

readingrainbow · 02/06/2016 19:06

Google spinning babies. It's a website dedicated to turning breech babies. I hope you have a productive conversation with your OB.

Froginapan · 02/06/2016 19:09

Depends on the experience of the HCPs.

In the UK almost no-one is experienced in breech deliveries anymore hence the norm of a planned C-section

GreenishMe · 02/06/2016 19:28

My DD was breech and was delivered normally (in the UK) without any problem.

IMO, you're in the best place to be having a breech birth (rather than UK) and I think you're going to make yourself feel unneccessarily anxious by sitting here reading some of these posts. Every birth is different.

WellErrr · 02/06/2016 19:35

Part of what makes breech births dangerous in the NHS is that C Sections have become the standard of care for a baby identified as breech. Therefore, most breach babies are delivered by planned C Section so doctors and midwives are not experienced in this kind of delivery.

Whereas in France, vaginal delivery of breech babies remains standard practice and HCPs will be experienced in dealing with such a delivery.

I have to say I agree with this, although I can understand your concern OP if you've been reading a lot of UK literature

lazyarse123 · 02/06/2016 19:40

I had a breech vaginal delivery 26 years ago, both me and daughter were absolutely fine. I did have a pelvic x ray about 2 weeks before due date to make sure there was enough room. I also had an epidural. The only downside was 13 people in the delivery suite at one point as a training exercise because most of the medical staff had never seen a breech birth. Me and my bits were quite famous on the ward for a while as people kept coming and congratulating me on my breech birth.

Froginapan · 02/06/2016 19:48

Lazy arse:

Yes, yes...but did you make the front page of the Fail?
😬

VagueIdeas · 02/06/2016 19:53

I'm sure all sorts of malpresentations are a variant of normal, but that doesn't mean they aren't complicated or risky or dangerous.

A planned CS is a walk in the park really (I've had one) and for the risk averse is a no brainer of a choice, IMO.

One thing to consider is some babies are breech for a reason, i.e. they're wrapped in their cord and can't turn. Scenarios like this are when ECVs can be very dangerous. I know there was a poster on here who lost a baby shortly after birth due to hypoxia after a failed ECV and emergency CS.

lazyarse123 · 02/06/2016 19:55

Froginapan I don't think anybody would have recognized my face.

Froginapan · 02/06/2016 20:02

😁😁

BearPear · 02/06/2016 20:03

2 breech vag deliveries here, first was bum first, second was footling. Both were fine although it was 20+ years ago when c-sections weren't quite as prevalent as they are today.
The Registrar delivered them both and I had an epidural set up both times in case an emergency section was required. I'd had a pelvic x-ray beforehand as I'm fairly petite and they were confident of a safe natural delivery.

Dozer · 02/06/2016 20:11

I had an undiagnosed breech baby, and after a while in labour an unplanned C section.

If the guidelines in France say for breech births it is ultimately your choice, I'd make a complaint to the hospital using its complaints process about the doctor's statement that you had no choice, and reference the guidance, and ask for the options to be more fully explained by another doctor or midwife.

I personally would refuse ECV.

Original poster

jonsnowssocks · 03/06/2016 10:11

Thanks for all your messages.

I've been doing some more research and can only find one French study on it, which concludes that there is no increased risk to a breech baby to be born naturally in France.

They also mention that an increase in mortality among breech babies can be down to problems the baby already has - ie it is breech because it is unwell rather than being unwell because it is breech. Entirely unhelpful information for me right now but I suppose it's worth bearing in mind.

Have already ruled out ECV as I've heard so many bad things about it, but am doing the various exercises designed to help her turn. And she has been doing cartwheels - she was transverse at 28 weeks, Frank breech at 32, head down becoming oblique actually during a scan at 34 weeks. I have an oddly-shaped uterus but she's not a big baby (50th percentile ) and they said she has plenty of room to turn yet.

I will see the midwife next week so can ask about meeting the OB but not sure if I'd meet the right one as essentially I'd have whoever is on duty when I go into labour.

OP posts:

Bravada · 03/06/2016 10:26

Yes I wouldn't have had an ECV after reading the thread on here from the lady whose baby died after an ECV . I just don't think it is worth the risk. Ditto vaginal delivery. If DD had been breech, I would have just gone straight to section. But that is pretty standard in my country too. It would be awful if they were to force you to attempt a vaginal delivery when you didn't want to. I hope you are able to convince them OP. Or that baby turns for you! Good luck.

Xenadog · 03/06/2016 10:34

My DD was breech from about 30 weeks and never turned. She was a footling so I don't think a natural birth would have been possible. I totally refused an ECV after reading about the poster on here who lost their baby due to one. When asking at my hospital about an ECV I wasn't reassured with their stats or their attitude so chose an c section. It was easy, planned and no stress at all. Recovery was, in the whole, fine.

I don't know about the system in France but the fact they have a theatre on standby wouldn't reassure me at all. It would make me think they expect things to go wrong so why have the worry and stress - I'd go straight the for the c section.

Original poster

jonsnowssocks · 03/06/2016 10:37

In the study I read, only about 20% of breech presentation result in a vaginal birth. Even in France, about 50% opt for an elective c-section, and of the 50% who don't, a majority end up with an EMCS. Not exactly reassuring statistics!

OP posts:

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