To not feel sorry for buy to let landlords

[feellikeahugefailure]

now the tax rules have changed and their borrow to let becomes a huge liability. Isn't that just part of speculating / investing? Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Signing up to many decades of debt its hardly unlikely that there are policy changes in that time.

Landlords in 5 star hotel moaning

usernamealreadytaken

you're safe from the firing squad then ;)

Yes Place, RTB was the third leg of the stool;

RTB. (1980 Housing Act)
Removal of security tenure from tenants. (1988 Housing Act)
Creation of BTL mortgages.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buy_to_let

TradGirl We made almost exactly the same points

Lupo, Yes Right to buy changed the whole game, where I live now large estates of council houses were sold off to tenants and many many of them are now rented out privately. Homes anywhere from a 2 bed flat to 4 bed houses. It shouldn't have happened, those would be part of the housing stock for families who need them if right to buy hadn't come along.
I was raised in those houses on the estates and there was no stigma to living in them and being renters and it was a nice place to live.

Not everybody wants to own, and something should be done to address high rents in areas where this is prohibitive (we moved to the north west where both house prices and rentals are far more reasonable in a lot of areas), but I'm not sure that penalising good landlords who look after their properties and tenants is the way to go.

Social housing is a wonderful idea, but if we converted all the BTL properties to social housing it would create a double burden on the state, both in terms of maintaining these homes (the capped rents rarely cover proper maintenance and running of social housing) and the burden of providing additional pensions to those who are no longer saving for retirement via BTL properties and investments (this is a large financial factor in pension planning, as many investment companies use property vehicles).

Okay so go back to the pre-1988 system, then. Simple.

We had an old asian bloke in the village. Lived in a lovely house, run down a bit but really nice house. Anyway he decided to go and live with his son and daughter in law and puts the house on the market. Except he refused to sell it to anyone who was planning on renting it out. He refused to sell it to anyone for a second home. He only wanted to sell to a local family who planned to live there.

I fucking CHEERED when I read the advert. He was my hero! Much grumblings in the pub from local BTLers who were miffed he wouldn't sell to them. Love love love that man.

This is going to have much more impact on the housing market; those starting on the property ladder and social tenants.

Council homes to be sold for RTB

I love that, Jane

I'm confused Jane at why you're so angry at LLs buying in a new development? There is not a single new development near us that has sold out. Not one.

There is a cap on the number of investment properties the developer can sell. Just as there is a percentage of the site that has to be affordable housing. The rest of the development has a sliding scale of properties available.

I have a friend who wanted to buy in the development. She has a steady job and savings. She couldn't get a mortgage. Nothing to do with BTL - everything to do with the banks

Regardless of whether no investors had bought in that development, she still can't live there.

Gosh, this government is good at bait and switch.

I don't own my own home but I think the anger towards BTL buyers is misdirected.

To say that they are hoarding something essential to life is an overreaction. Having somewhere to live is, of course an necessity, but owning your home is not. The properties are made available to the rental market, so not exactly hoarded!

I do agree that some changes should be made. For example, controlled rents, longer secure leases, lower fees for renters and more properties being made available to renters on benefits.

I also think that there should be some restrictions on the types of properties BTL owners should be able to buy - 'starter homes' should be off limits, for example or incentives given for buying uninhabitable family homes and renovating them.

Like previous posters have said, not everyone wants to or is able to buy a property and more support should be given to those people choosing/having to rent or those trying to get a mortgage.

I also think that it is unrealistic to assume that house prices would drop to such a level that everyone would be able to buy a property.

There is no need to feel sorry for landlords, but no need to snipe at them either. I became an accidental landlord when I had to move but couldn't sell my house. It is well maintained - better than my own home in fact - and I have put the rent up once in 11 years (between tenants).

Some landlords are crap but I'm bored of being tarred with the same brush.

I don't have a huge amount of sympathy with BTL landlords because their collective action has caused the problem they are claiming to be solving - the number of people needing to rent is massively higher than it should be because of the BTL market pushing up prices.

However, we do need some of them - because as PP point out there will always be people whose employment conditions, commitment to staying in a particular area permanently, or other factors mean that they wouldn't be able to buy even if house prices were lower.

Probably totally unpractical solution: Might it work to have some kind of restriction in the number of privately owned rental properties any area is allowed to have? You could estimate from demographics and census data the number of people who need a rental place and couldn't buy, add maybe 10% or to that to allow for a certain amount of churn/vacant properties, and take away from that the number of social housing properties which exist in the area. That's the number of rental licences available. They are shared equitably among existing landlords (but with a smaller share going to any landlord with a record of screwing tenants over, larger numbers with a record of being good and fair). Then all the landlords are obliged (unless they choose to keep them empty - and that's something that should be taxed into oblivion) to sell them. The available purchasers are the tenants who are currently renting and could afford to buy a reasonably priced home. So the price of the commodity (the house) then falls to match the price that a willing purchaser is able to offer because demand is limited to a number much closer to those who need a house to live in. This would obviously be a massive re-adjustment of the market and some over-leveraged BTL landlords would lose money - perhaps there should be some kind of tax-payer funded cushioning of this blow.

Such a thing will never happen of course, or anything like it. There are too many MPs who are also BTL landlords.

YANBU.
People choose to get into BTL.
A local landlord used to offer money to council tenants to buy their council homes, and would buy them a year on when they could be resold.
House prices in this area have rocketed, and that has priced lower income people out of the area. Its a shame as its close to the city centre, and used to be good for people that worked there.
Many of the Victorian terraced houses are now let out to students. They are crammed in.

Before council housing stock was sold off, CHB was paid from one council dept to another with no net loss to the tax payer. Now it goes out to private landlords, and that change in policy has cost billions.

To add to that, the councils have lost a valuable asset.

I don't really buy the term 'accidental' landlords.

You accidently didn't sell your home and accidentaly rented it out. I know someone that claims to be one. They didn't sell their old housse as it wouldn't sell for the price they wanted. They didn't accidentally rent it out, it was very much on purpose.

YANBU. BIL recently bought a BTL. He argues that it is his pension/inheritance for his DD (who is only 2!). The property was bottom of the market and perfect for FTB.

Things like this are swings and roundabouts IMO.
Some people blame B2L landlords for the lack of cheap properties on the market, but on the other side of the coin if B2L landlords didn't exist then who on earth would people rent from, especially those who will never be able to buy a property.
It's a catch 22, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Also worth mentioning that it's not easy at all to get a B2L mortgage, typically they require a 25% deposit as opposed to a FTB 5%/10% (Yes, it's true! 5% deposit mortgages are still available!! )
I do feel sorry for landlords, who now face higher tax implications and also have to pay stamp duty on additional properties. Bear in mind they're only making a living. Same as everyone else.
I'm part of 'generation rent' but my Dad is a B2L landlord so I see both sides of the coin.
As it is I'm lucky enough to be able to rent a beautiful house in a desirable area that I wouldn't be able to afford to buy in.

I feel sorry for people my age (20's) we'll never buy houses and rents are twice what our monthly wages are so we have no hope or renting so much as a cupboard and social housing lists are sky high because of this all because some greedy LL wants £800pcm for a 2 bed dilapidated house they bought at auction that hasn't besn decorated since the 70's so no o don't feel sorry there all cuntyfuckers

You accidently didn't sell your home and accidentaly rented it out. I know someone that claims to be one. They didn't sell their old housse as it wouldn't sell for the price they wanted. They didn't accidentally rent it out, it was very much on purpose.

I'm not selling a house at a loss if I don't have to. I don't believe anyone would do this if they had an alternative. So I could leave it empty while I wait for the market to recover- or I could rent it out at a reasonable price. Actually I would have sold it a couple of years ago but am waiting for the current tenants to move out.

YANBU, BTL landlords are parasites and there should have been measures taken against them a long time ago.

I remember seeing part of a TV programme some years ago that was advising someone in London to buy up cheaper houses in the north to let out.

Everyone was getting very excited about how cheap the houses were (yes, there's a reason for that, we lost our fucking industries and jobs) and what a great return they would get from renting them out (to people who could never hope to earn enough money to compete in property bidding wars with Londoners).

It was so fucking wrong, but no-one seemed to see it, or if they did, they didn't care.

LilySnape they're all cuntyfuckers
Treeroot 'BTL landlords are parasites'
Let's not tar all landlords with the same brush here.
Not all LLs are parasites. I know loads who let out properties to people the councils refuse to help. In fact, my Dad let out a flat to a guy who was living in his beaten up old car, struggling to get a job and struggling to get access to his kids. The council refused to help him so my Dad gave him a chance. The bloke has been there over 5 years now, has a steady job, regular access to his kids and is grateful that someone gave him the opportunity to get his life back together.... where would he have gone if it wasn't for being given that chance??? The council turned him away.

if B2L landlords didn't exist then who on earth would people rent from

They would buy as the vast vast majority want to. The houses are not destroyed if btl scum sell them

Can everyone who wants to buy raise the required deposit and get a mortgage?

BTLs are not the biggest problem. Biggest problem are all those EMPTY properties, that nobody wants or can buy, belonging to some remote agencies, sitting there all boarded up

can everyone who wants to buy raise the required deposit and get a mortgage?
I think its economies of scale. Its difficult to scrape up enough for your very first own house, but if you already have some, and they generate income, its much easier to obtain more

Can everyone who wants to buy raise the required deposit and get a mortgage?

No ones talking about everyone buying. But if the prices had'nt been pumped up of the forced renters could buy.