Crossing picket lines when in a trade union

[Kiddiewinks2008]

I'm a public sector worker in a trade union who is currently out on strike. I didnt vote for the action but feel that if I am in a union, then I have to support their decisions. I have had to use them in the past for bullying in work for which they were invaluable.
My manager is also in the trade union, has been lecturing non union members all week about the pay dispute and how the employers are in the wrong. And then crossed the picket line and went to work.

I'm really cross about it- I have lost pay etc but feel collective union power is undermined if we all dont support their action.

AIBU to be pissed off about manager crossing the picket line? I have no idea about the etiquette of strike action anymore but surely its defeating the object of a picket line.

What makes your honour and morality better than the next person's bombardier?

Its just what YOU believe.

You can not impose what you believe on others. However much you like. You can only try and persuade them to change their minds.

You don't usually manage that by threats and bullying. That tends to gets everyones backs up and is unconstructive and generally leads to complete breakdowns in communication and alienation.

No, the persuading etc is what happens before the ballot. Then we vote and all support whatever the majority decision is. That is how unionism works effectively. If you dont present a united front, you weaken your whole organisation. If not, employers will target those who stand up and are isolated as their other union members desert them. Union activists are already targeted anyway, how immoral and cowardly to hide behind 'oooh i dont believe in this strike' and leave your fellow union members on the firing line. Leave the union, join a non strike union, actually vote in the union ballots, there are plenty of options available,but once the votes are counted, everyone stands together. Its hardly a new or novel concept.

you join a union

you have a vote

you agree - by joining - to support the outcome of a democratic vote - even if vote the other way

the clue is in the name 'union' - you know - united and as one

if you want to cross picket lines don't be in a union - your boss is a twat

It's disgusting behaviour and I would have to tell my manager I had lost all respect for them if they did that.

If I ruled the world, union negotiated pay rises and employment benefits would only apply to union members

I hope your dispute is resolved favourably soon.

If the union doesn't represent your views to the extent that you can't abide by a majority vote as you think it's the morally wrong option - that union is not for you & you leave.

It's ok to re-evaluate that constantly. You can quit the union the day of a strike & go in to work with your head held high. You & your erstwhile union no longer see eye to eye, they do not speak for you & there is no shame in that.

But I think it's pretty shameful to remain in a union & strike break.

By all means go on strike, that is your right.

But I have a big problem with picket lines. If someone doesn't want to strike, they should not be intimidated when they go into work. You can either stay at home or protest somewhere else.

Also, not everyone will be a member of the union, or the same union. That's why you get some teachers striking and not others, for example. It's actually illegal to go on strike because someone else is on strike. I have some sympathy with the solidarity argument if it's the same union, but it's still a personal decision.

I'm a teacher.

People who don't belong to a striking union are obliged to go in unless the school is closed.

They aren't 'crossing a picket line'. It isn't their picket line.

This includes people who have decided to leave that union because they disagree with the strike.

Fair play to them.

Very different matter from wanting to stay in the striking union but undermine its collective action.

That's having your scabby cake and eating it.

Of course its ok to cross a picket line, just as its ok to join a picket. We live in a democracy last time I looked and people should have free will.

I crossed a picket line. I did not agree with the reason behind the strike, that it was politically motivated, the fact that it was such a small turnout for vote and the fact that it affected patient care. Oh - and in the end it achieved precisely nothing because there isn't actually money in the public purse to pay for what the union wanted - not while tax is being kept so low.

I respect people's decision to strike and I respect people's right to do as I do and disagree with the union and go to work. All the name calling has absolutely no effect whatsoever on me.

At my university, it depends on the grade you work at. If you're academic or academic-related, you're directed to UCU; if you're not then you're Unison. I'm professional support staff/uni admin, but on a lower rung, so I'm Unison.

If my local UCU rep had asked me, I wouldn't have crossed the line, but for once he didn't even turn up to picket!

I left the union, it was that or be a hypocrite. I felt striking over pay while my client group were getting sanctioned left right and centre was a stretch too far.

Borogoves I am from Yorkshire mining stock - we never cross a picket line whether agree or not - it is a matter of principle. I did not agree with the strike I mentioned and lost a four figure sum contract as a result of not making the meeting but I would never cross a picket line.

All those people saying it's fine to go against a union's democratic decision to strike, would you consider it fine to strike if the ballot said no to striking?

you do NOT ever cross a picket line whether it is yours or someone else's. Mmm, dh, as a member of HM Forces frequently had to cross a picket line when the dockyard workers were out on strike, in order to get to work. If he hadn't, he would have been in deep shit.

When the firefighters and ambulance crews go on strike and HM Forces are called in to ensure there is a service, is that considered breaking a picket line? I'm pretty sure if they refused to do their jobs it would be taken very seriously, and the public would be harmed. Presumably this is why HM Forces aren't permitted to be unionised.

happypoobum

"It's disgusting behaviour and I would have to tell my manager I had lost all respect for them if they did that."

Good luck with that career progression.

rowan

I let my union membership expire the following month.

Bomb

"You are taking (eg legal protection, legal advice, insurance) without giving in return."

I'd been paying my dues. Never actually received anything although I realise it was there had I needed it.

citydoc

"I am from Yorkshire mining stock - we never cross a picket line whether agree or not - it is a matter of principle. I did not agree with the strike I mentioned and lost a four figure sum contract as a result of not making the meeting but I would never cross a picket line."

From mining stock and lost thousands of pounds and would unthinkingly never cross a picket line on principle. Some people never learn!

"you do NOT ever cross a picket line whether it is yours or someone else's."

That's illegal. I assume you aren't actually a Dr as many non-striking Drs crossed the picket line when the junior Drs were taking time off.

GiddyOnZackHunt

"All those people saying it's fine to go against a union's democratic decision to strike, would you consider it fine to strike if the ballot said no to striking?"

No I'd resign. I believe in a free market (including labour) which is one of the reasons I'm against unions.

The annoying thing is that I bet the UCU will accept 2% or something like that (as they have done in the past), so those who strike will lose as much (if they divide it by number of working days) striking as they will get back if the negotiations result in a higher offer.

I can completely understand people who do not want to lose two day's pay. If worked out on 1/365, I lose £94 per day approximately. If 1/261 (number of working days), it's about £143. So hardly peanuts to be losing nearly £300 in one month with no guarantee of getting the money back. As well as already paying the union £240 a year in membership fees. I am quite active in the union so I felt I had to strike, but I really do understand people who don't. I also know colleagues who will not strike when it directly affects students (like practical assessments).
There is also a problem with the timing of the strike. It's hardly going to cause widespread disruption when there is no teaching. It won't even cause disruption to exams because invigilation staff won't be members. If you really want to cause disruption, plan the strike during a teaching period.

If you join a union then one of the principles you sign up for is solidarity. So if a strike is called as the result of a successful ballot, then you should observe the strike and not cross the picket line. If the membership doesn't agree with the strike then they need to reflect this by voting against. The low turnout/response rates are not a reasonable excuse to break a strike; you have a choice whether to vote or not. If the 'activity' in the membership is low and you are consistently facing decisions that you don't agree with, as a result of low voting numbers, then you need to re-evaluate your Union membership.

If you aren't in a Union then you should be attending work as normal, as failure to attend would be unauthorised absence. Those on the picket line should be aware of those who are not members - a reasonable attempt to change their minds is fine (i.e. you can join the Union on the day of the strike and therefore take part in the picket line). However name-calling and intimidation is not acceptable. I particularly dislike use of the word 'scab'. If someone is not part of your organisation and therefore not part of your strike, then abusing them is hardly likely to bring them round to supporting your cause.

I have never been a Union member BTW. I have crossed a picket line as a non-Union member on a strike day. If I was in the Union then I would have stayed out in line with the agreement.

enter sorry but that's not the question I asked. And presumably if you're pro a free market for employment you contract rather than work as a permanent employee?

giddy

what was the question you asked? I wasn't trying to be obtuse.

I have a 23 month rolling contract as I'm secure enough to feel I can renegotiate a better deal for myself ≈ 2 years. Free market can co-exist with contracts. I'm not trying to be an arse but what do you mean by contract or permanent? To me they're the same but long / short term. Anyone underperforming can be dealt with (including sacking). If permanent literally means forever then, god no, that shouldn't exist.

Support the union or leave the union. Don't cross a picket. I've held my nose and gone on strike having voted against the action. If I don't take part when they need me, how can I expect then to be there when I need them?

All this talk of "scabs" makes me think we've fallen through a portal to 1983 and the miners' strike.

This is part of the reason I dislike Unions so much, the name calling and nastiness to anyone who opposes their views. I have never been a union member and would not hesitate to cross a picket line if the circumstances ever arose (unlikely as i'm self-employed)

I can see why the OP is cross though, not because her boss crossed a picket line as that's up to him, but because he was saying one thing, and doing another. Whatever the circumstances that would make me question someone's integrity and honesty.

If you're part of a union, you should follow the action that was decided by the ballot. If you don't want to strike, leave or join a non strike Union.

No BombadierFritz Not voting to strike should be voting not to strike. If there is not a majority of members voting for a strike there should be no strike.

Sure, the union can expel members who don't strike - but if the strike was not well supported there will be more expelled than left in and that is why unions don't do mass expulsions.

I always said I would never cross a picket line (and would never hear the end of it from my mining grandad). However when my union (GMB I'm a nurse) went on strike 2 years ago my manager purposefully didn't cover my shift with a non striking staff member (rcn didn't join the strike) so I had no choice but to break strike otherwise I was putting patients at risk and my own professional registration in jeapordy. I was dreading walking past everyone on the way to work and actually contemplated going in extra early to avoid them but everyone cheered me as I went in becasue they knew why I was going in.
So I guess what I'm saying is sometimes despite supporting the strike there are other reasons to cross the picket line.

Ok so permanent to me is on the payroll as an employee with an expectation of maternity rights etc., whereas contracting is a non 'employed' person who has none of those expectations and will move between different companies and is usually self employed or works for an agency. Does anyone believe in 'permanent' as forever these days? Even Japan has abandoned the salary man culture.
My question was purely, if people think it is fine for a union member to cross their own picket line during a strike that has been called after a democratic ballot, would those same people defend me if I chose to reject a democratic decision not to strike and carried out my own choice to strike?
If someone wishes to leave their employment because they don't like it for some reason then that's nothing to do with striking iyswim.
I just don't believe that people defending people who choose to go against the majority verdict of their fellow union membership cuts both ways. It certainly doesn't legally.
Does that make it clearer?