To think employers that won't provide feedback on job applications are BU?

[NeverInDoubt]

I thought it was the recommended thing, and totally normal and expected/encouraged these days, to ring the HR department of a company and ask for feedback for why your job application wasn't successful.

However, I am noticing more recently that the 'not successful this time' email is more commonly including a phrase along the lines of 'individual feedback can not be given'.

AIBU to think these companies are BU?

and

Would I BU to just ask for it anyway, on the basis of 'what have I got to lose'??

12-15 hours?! Ouch! What one earth are you writing?

In general, I think YABU

When I was applying for primary teaching jobs in the North East 10 years ago, the average number of applicants was 100+, sometimes 200. If the rumours we heard were true, the honest feedback would often be along the lines of:
'yours was one of the 50% we filed under bin before opening'
'the handwriting on your envelope wasn't great so we didn't open it'
'we found enough candidates to shortlist before we got round to reading yours'

Now that there's a shortage of teachers, my school only gets around 6-15 applicants per job. I think feedback to all of those would be reasonable.

So I think it depends on the number of applicants, basically.

Treaclesoda - that depends on the role and the quality of the other candidates. If you want someone to hit the ground running and there are at least 10 candidates who on paper could do that then I wouldn't bother with someone who could do the job in a few months/ years and would need coaching. If no one is a good fit or it is an internal candidate who offers other benefits then I might consider.

Sifting through CVs is not a precise science and a lot of times I have to go with gut feel especially if I've got loads of cvs to read. Sometimes it is random stuff which gets you an interview. We were looking for a quantitative analyst (Maths PhD boffins) and one guy had all the qualifications but also stated he was a skateboarding champion. Everyone was keen to interview him over many others with the same academic background as Quants are normally "Big Bang Theory" geeks and we all wanted to see what a skateboarding Quant looked like.

Am assuming that 12-15 hours may be roles that require application forms with lots of unique questions(i.e. not reusable) rather than CV & covering letter?

If the application requires that level of investment from the applicant, that early, then it does seem wrong not to give something back to the candidate, tbh. Or at least make it a multi-stage process so you only need to invest that time when past the first sift.

Are most jobs not application forms? I've very rarely been able to apply for a job just by submitting a cv. It's usually a form with your entire employment and education history and then half a dozen questions with 500 or so words to write for each one. It would be so much easier to be able to just send a tailored cv and covering letter. Particularly when you're young and just out of education and you don't have enough work experience to give decent answers.

YABVU - try spending ages preparing for an interview, going for interview and the hearing absolutely nothing, not even thank you for coming or getting a letter a month later just saying sorry you weren't successful in the interview.

I've had both in the past few months.

balletgirlmum
That will change with the implementation of the GDPR

I've just googled gdpr & can't make head nor tail iof it. There was a mention of data for employment purposes being exempt. Does that mean that if manual not computerised records of customer involved are kept companies will have to register?

No, what I meant was that as far as I know (and we in my organisation are helping businesses to get to grips with GDPR so are having to train in it ourselves) the notification requirement is going to be done away with altogether but there will be wider requirements such as data processors being more accountable for SAR etc. Tbh I haven't learned much yet about data for employment purposes and the implications for it-but please feel free to keep in touch with me if you would like as we have weekly update sessions on it).

I've had two rejection letters in two days this week so this Top Tip from Viz made me laugh.

Employers - avoid hiring unlucky people by immediately throwing half the completed job application forms you receive into the bin.

We generally get 100-200 applicants per job. We have a large HR department but they don't get involved in the shortlisting process as the recruiting managers are the ones who know what they're looking for. Consequently, HR wouldn't be in a position to provide meaningful feedback, and as a manager with lots of other demands on my time, I simply don't have the capacity to respond to loads of requests for feedback at the application stage.

However, if people have made the effort to attend an interview where I have chaired the panel, I always make a point of phoning them personally afterwards to let them know the outcome an provide feedback if they want it. I think that's just common courtesy tbh.

Like Dylan - that is exactly what royal mail do (or did, when I worked for them about 12 years ago). They explained that they had so many applications for post men/women that they did this thing called 'random deselection'. When I asked what that was, they explained that they only took forward one in four applications, taken randomly, to avoid having too many applicants!

we recruit through NHS jobs and when shortlisting you have to give a brief explanation on each application as to why they weren't shortlisted so stuff like 'did not meet the person spec' or ' lack of relevant qualification / experience' 'no evidence of xxx to meet requirement of JD' this goes to HR so if anyone rings for feedback they have at least an idea why they weren' shortlisted.

I am somewhat cynical about the value of feedback even after an interview. I once rang the organisation after an interview for feedback and got a stuttered 'oh, you, er, went, er, into too much detail'. Another feedback request came back with 'You didn't say enough about such-and-such'. I ended up utterly confused and demoralised with conflicting advice.

What would be more useful would be to pass your CV/draft application form under the eye of someone in the know who you trust (not an Internet random) to give honest advice and a realistic assessment of your chances. Also bear in mind that interviews, when you get there, are a bit of a numbers game. It's not that you have a 1 in 6 chance if 6 people are being interviewed, but that you all come in with odds, rather like a horse race. The person who's done the best application form will come in as the favourite, and then at the back there'll be the moderately good one with some employment gaps and an unconventional history who'll be the 30-1 outsider and will be unlikely to get it unless everyone else screws up big time.

One more thing: sometimes life can surprise you. I'm about to start a new job in a week and a half. I was late for the interview because there was no parking at all; I had to ring them up and explain the situation (touristy town come Christmas, abnormally full up). I took a deep breath when I got in and just did my best. I didn't get the job, put it down to experience and moved on. A couple of months later I got an e-mail from them. Would I like to be reconsidered as the person has gone on to a bigger job? Yes please... So you never know.

Maggie ha! Who knew that Liz's top tips had been so helpful to the HR industry.

Its reasonable to expect it, but they simply receive far too many applications to give feedback.