To think my essay should be marked again?

[muminthecity]

I am just reaching the end of my second year as a part time student at university. I have just received a mark for one of my essays (68% - 2% away from a first.) Looking through the comments from my tutor, there are several which criticise my grammar incorrectly. For example, where I have written
Where I have written "One of the ways children learn," the word "ways" has been highlighted, with a comment saying that it needs an apostrophe before the s. This is surely incorrect? There are other examples where the tutor has said I need an apostrophe which are just incorrect.

In another part of the essay I have written 'as well as through interaction with the environment.' She has highlighted the word 'through' and said it should be 'though,' but then the sentence wouldn't make any sense!

These are just a few examples, there are many, many more.

AIBU to contact my tutor about this and ask for the essay to be marked again? Do you think it would make any difference to my mark?

I don't think it'll affect your grade but I'd be seriously concerned if these really are comments from your tutor. However, the pop up box and the fact it says you 'may' need an apostrophe makes it look like it's some sort of spelling and grammar correction program that's applied automatically.

Hopefully it's the latter but if you speak with your personal tutor as you mentioned it should clarify either way.

I am a lecturer and my grammar is very good.

where I study your grade would either be 68 or 73, 69/70/71 aren't options.

it is commonplace for PhD students to mark first year/some second year undergrad work with a lecture verifying. comments on TurnItIn are often unhelpful, sometimes irrelevant and generally offer no indication of the corresponding grade. your grade was probably accurate while the comments are not.

68 is great

We are proposing banning borderline marks, eg 69 and 71. I don't understand this, personally - I have given a few 69s when the essay was otherwise deserving of a first but had one key thing that dragged it down. Isn't a 69 a useful way to be able to do this?

OP, I would go to your tutor and show him/her the SPAG comments. I imagine the tutor will be as horrified as we all seem to be. Yes, gradeMark is a PITA but it doesn't just make up the comments - it is the marker who has made those. Ask if it will have affected your grade and point out that you are only 2 marks down on a 70. I can't imagine it will pull you up (maybe if your mark had been 69, but not 68) but it is definitely worth highlighting so that your department is aware of the issue.

As others have said 68 is a very decent mark. Well done. Marks between 68 and 72 across the first two years is not to be sniffed at. Given that some markers will be slightly more generous than others and that students will suit some modules than others, that is a very consistent performance and shouldn't be taken as a sign of declining performance.

As to the essay being discussed. It is disappointing that the tutor isn't up to snuff on their grammar and I could see why you'd be bloody annoyed by their 'corrections.'

Having marked plenty of undergraduate essays as a PhD student, I can't say that SPAG 'errors' would have swayed my decision over a mark to any great degree, unless they were so severe and so widespread that they compromised the readability of the essay. Whilst I can't second guess your tutor, I would be amazed if you have lost out on a first on that basis. Did the feedback from the tutor indicate any areas that needed improvement aside from grammar?

I always welcomed students who wanted to discuss a mark, but I didn't particularly appreciate students angrily demanding why they didn't get a particular mark they felt they deserved (I'm not suggesting you'd do this, btw!)

A productive way of having that discussion could be to approach the tutor and say, 'I got a 68 in my last essay and I'm really keen to improve. What would you have liked to have seen more of or what could I have done differently in order to get a first?'

I doubt their answer will be 'improve your SPAG.' If it is their response, you would be well within your rights to challenge them. Either way, you will get a clearer understanding of their thinking and have something you can use in your next essay.

Sorry to digress, but I am intrigued by WriteforFun1's remark about "top line punctuation". What is this? (Google is not my friend here!)
Congratulations on your mark, OP! My own second year university student offspring recently got a couple of 68% marks for essays and was thrilled to bits!

muminthecity I would discuss it with your personal tutor with an eye to asking for a remark. Sometimes (depending on where you are) you can more or less informally talk to the marker/tutor who may change the grade.

For me, if I had an essay that had lots of good content, analysis, etc, but had consistently poor SPAG, I might give it a 68 just to make the point to the student that they need to improve his/her SPAG.

But not for a few mistakes, typos, etc.

So if there is a lot of (mistaken) SPAG points, then your grade might get improved.

Also as zeeeka said, marking is often done by external temporary staff, and the quality can suffer.

"You may need to use an apostrophe...": If marking, you don't put 'may'. That's definitely software suggestion (and I can't believe a uni lecturer would put that much effort into little errors).

Is there a general comment which explains what you could have done better - you argument, sources etc.? My concern would be they ran it through plagiarism software, marked the content and then used the large amount of purple to downgrade a little (if grammar does count that much).

Dumdedum - he just meant apostrophes. I don't think I've heard that expression from anyone else.

The stories I hear about online marking "systems" baffle me - they don't seem to work very well...?

For those wondering about how the feedback was given, here is an example of what it looks like.

That screenshot shows what is clearly the software package, not the marker. I suspect that's what's happened. Turnitin et al. are seriously horrible for markers. Good old pencil or red pen is far more effective.

Grademark on Turnitin (which this clearly is, judging by the screenshot) has a selection of customisable 'quickmarks' where you can click and drag a 'readymade' comment such as 'sp', 'missing quotation marks', 'improper citation', 'comma splice', 'vague' etc etc. Obviously these are only a small part of the actual annotation of the essay - you also add your own comments throughout and then a lengthy final comment, also a set of rubrics which give 1 to 5 on argument, expression, engagement with secondary sources etc.

Turnitin is utterly ghastly and migraine-inducing to use for more than very small numbers of assignments, but unfortunately my department has abolished hard copy hand-ins entirely this year, so all marking is now done via Turnitin. Groan.

when I worked in academia I would always correct grammar in essay - I am of the generation that were taught grammar at school - but I did not deduct marks for poor grammar. However, it is worthasking the question as to whether marks were deducted, and if so ask for a remark as the examples you highlight show she has little understanding of proper grammar. If she refuses then go to the departmental head.

I refuse to do online marking - my eyes won't take it. But this looks more & more like a set of errors in using the software.

There are advantages to online marking systems with respect to hand-ins, retention of papers, accessibility and portability as well as genuinely useful shortcuts for commonly-written comments, but I'm the sort that has spellcheck turned off in Word so would never rely on software for that level of marking.

Well I spoke to my tutor today and it seems that you were all right about it being the fault of the online system and I have been assured that it didn't affect my mark in any way. I am still a bit as some of the dubious comments were definitely written by a person, not a computer (complete with her own spelling and grammar mistakes!) However, I accept that it didn't have any effect on my grade so will leave it now.

Thanks again to all of you for posting - really interesting to see other points of view, especially those who have had similar issues with turnitin.

I'm a lecturer and yes marks are penalised for spelling, grammar and punctuation.

It would cost a first.

On the basis this lecturer does not understand spelling, grammar and punctuation, you should ask for it to be remarked.

I'd contact the module leader or course leader in first instance with the examples scanned. Be clear, concise and non personal.

Refer to marking criteria if they say and provide the entire feedback.

Rosie - I do understand what you're saying, and I felt the same yesterday but I really don't think there's anyway I'll get an extra 2%. This is what my tutor said in her email today:

"I also see from the rubric that she has given you an "excellent" for the structure/grammar of your assignment so please don't worry that you have been docked marks."

You could ask for your essay to be second marked anyway - I've just finished a part time degree online (not OU) and my understanding is that where a student is borderline between grades (as you are) second marking should take place as a matter of course. It is really bad that apostrophes are being pointed out incorrectly, and would annoy me big time, but then I have a bit of a bee about it.

I wouldn't let it lie - I would be fighting for that extra 2% and asking for a re-mark

This is irrational - if your work wasn't deserving of the extra 2% then, with what evidence could you "fight" for it now? This entitled attitude really doesn't help your actual learning; why not learn from feedback to see how next time you can reach 70%?

I think it's pretty clear from the tutor's email that the OP will not be getting the 'extra 2 per cent'. She already scored excellent on grammar and structure so clearly the mark was not influenced by the strange comments on GradeMark.

You can't just 'demand a remark'. It really does not work like that. Second marking or moderation takes place before the work is returned. In rare cases, work may be re-marked if there is a complaint (that is upheld) about the marker not following procedure.

And as I said previously, it is mad if we now live in a world where every grade under 70% is unacceptable. If everyone gets firsts, it devalues the meaning of it.

Thank you Foggy and runningincircles, you have both helped me to understand a bit more about how essays are marked. I am new to university education, I left school nearly 15 years ago and this is the first bit of studying I've done since then, so I am still getting used to it.

Just to clarify, I was never going to demand/insist on a re-mark, and was quite happy with my mark. It was just these grammar issues that got my goat, but I understand that this is largely due to the online system and its flaws.

Thanks to everyone else for sharing your views, this thread has been really useful, not just for this one issue, but for my general understanding of how higher education works.

I would definitely be challenging this! In my assignments, spelling, grammar and structure is worth between 10 and 15 marks/percent!

No problem, and I know you weren't being unreasonable or demanding a remark. My comments were in response to other posters who said they would not stand for this etc.

And well done on your mark. It really sounds like you are doing well.