To think that it's time the UK had a GED (High School equivalency) mechanism?

[Just5minswithDacre]

Something similar to the American and Canadian system?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Educational_Development

I've applied for a contract working in an area partly concerned withNEETS (keeping it vague on purpose) so I've been boning up for that interview.

I was also chatting to a Home Edding friend at the weekend about the expense and difficulty of accessing GCSE courses and exams, and particularly about how changes to the GCSE system will make things harder/easier for HEers and the likely effect on the NEET numbers. Then we wandered on to the raising of the participation age and who that might have an impact on.

I've been thinking about it since and it seems to me that anyone NOT getting 5+ GCSEs at 16 (for whatever reason) has an unnecessarily difficult path to 'catch up'. There's absolutely blanket provision for 16-18s and adults to take Maths and English GCSE, but beyond that, it's hard to access Level 2 general education at 16+. Anyone trying is likely to be forced down a vocational route.

So why don't we have a GED-type option? Should we?

Well a standard US/CA high school diploma doesn't give you direct access to UK universities anyway dog and the Wikipedia entry and GED website suggest that for US universities you might need GED + something else to apply to some universities and maybe just a GED for some others.

But what I'm suggesting is a step lower than N American high school diploma level anyway; Something that gives you access to Sixth form (or jobs).

But some of the things nooka and BeALert are describing sound like really positive features standard secondary education in the UK could benefit from.

Ah OK. Maths and English gcse online then? I misunderstood and assumed that this wasn't acceptable for some reason? Or would you want folk to take four or five online core gcses and that to qualify as a GED type thing? That seems to be introducing more complication rather than just taking the online route?

When we looked into HE it seemed reasonably easy to take the gcse programs and exams online, but that was a few years ago. Been out of the country six years now. Are they not offered any more?

We moved to Canada partly for the school system, and yes I do think it's good. But it is quite different. Much less differentiation, and more general and yes the first year of university is really the equivalent to the last year of school in the UK (but not at all free!). University courses here are generally modular too, so for example ds will do two university level courses next year at the same time as school, and I get the impression that you don't really start to specialise even at university until the third and fourth years. Oh and no such thing as sixth form either.

One thing I do really like is that academic and practical subjects are considered equivalent in status, and going down a trades route is encouraged. On the other hand at least in my area there is no streaming or setting, so sometimes the more engaged and higher achieving children may be one of only two or three in a class which dd has found very frustrating.

Or would you want folk to take four or five online core gcses and that to qualify as a GED type thing?

Yes that. So that people can meet the oh-so-common '5 GCSEs A-C inc English and Maths' requirement.

That seems to be introducing more complication rather than just taking the online route?

An all online version would be great. I've just registered myself as a potential candidate on GED online International to have a better poke around.

What's really good about the GED is you can study by yourself, online (or in classes if you're in the right jurisdiction) at your own pace and put yourself in for each of the five papers as soon as the practice tests suggest you are ready; No waiting for exam seasons, or having to follow a whole year long course. So it fits around work, you can stagger them out. Plus it's a really affordable route; $50 per exam plus study materials.

Particularly good for 19+s., I'd think; People with jobs. Or prisoners.

There are online GCSE courses that you can take individually but you still need to negotiate with schools to get a place to sit the papers as an external candidate (clunky) and they're very expensive.

We have the same issues for the optional courses, but core subjects are streamed and students are signed up for -1, -2, -3 or - 4 courses (-1 being the top tier university entrants, -4 usually being EFL students recently arrived/ purely vocational). Sometimes there is more than one level in a classroom at any given time (the -1s and -2s might be sharing a teacher) but the exams are separate. So university entrance requirements for specific courses may state that the -1 course is the only qualifying one, for example.

At 14, ds1 has just received his recommendations for g10 (first year of high school) so anyone who has not been recommended for the 'pure' stream (-1) has pretty much zero chance of getting into the McGills etc.

I don't know that it's 'better', but it is different. You can still graduate high school with -3 courses, but a lot depends on what you want to be doing with them.

I like the volunteering etc. I'm not so keen on the amount of money it is going to cost me to put three kids through at least 12 years of university!!

It sounds complicated in North America

Yes, $50 per course is a lot better than the £300 or so for online gcses. It would be interesting to see what they actually expect you to pass before getting GED at those prices. If it is 5 courses, pretty good. But if they are expecting 5 courses at 30 level, but insisting on 5 courses at 20 level and 5 at 10, it does still add up. I'll be interested to see what you come up with!

I couldn't agree more.

My dd was ill during her GCSE's and left school with only 2.

I couldn't find ANYWHERE for her to retake them other than private tutorial colleges which we can't afford.

I am still getting to grips with it. All I have gleaned so far is that parents of g9s weep if their kids aren't recommended -1, and that I should have started saving pre-birth...
Oh, and that dd1 wants to go to uni out of province, which is more expensive still.
Thanks, dd1.
I've now sat through the grade 10 parent presentation twice (where they sit you all down and explain what your child needs to graduate high school) and it has taken well over an hour each time. And in my head I'm going 'I'm sure it was simpler when I just chose a list of subjects for o level and ran with it'...

In the past people who had missed out, for whatever reason, on a school education could do exam subjects at 'night school'. Twenty five years ago all of the local high schools and colleges ran O level and vocational courses. Now there is one college offering maths and English. A lot of places in the past had the working men's institute which provided an evening education. These things need to be put back in place.

It would be interesting to see what they actually expect you to pass before getting GED at those prices. If it is 5 courses, pretty good. But if they are expecting 5 courses at 30 level, but insisting on 5 courses at 20 level and 5 at 10, it does still add up. I'll be interested to see what you come up with!

Hang on. I'm still getting to grips with the terminology!

SCORES & PASSING THE TEST

What score do I need to pass the test?

International test-takers need to receive a minimum of 410 on each test subject, but the minimum total score must be 2250 to earn their credential

What do my scores mean?

Your official GED® transcript contains two sets of numbers: standard scores and percentile ranks. The standard scores make it possible to compare scores across tests and test forms. This is necessary because some tests contain a different number of questions and there are many forms of the GED® test in circulation, all of them equally difficult. The percentile rank makes it possible to compare your performance on each one of the tests with the performance of graduating high school seniors. The higher the percentile rank, the better your performance.

Score Scale:

In 2002, the fourth test series was released and used a standard score range of 200 to 800 with a mean of 500 and a standard deviation of 100. At the same time, the new U.S. and IAFAS minimum score requirement was raised – for the third time in its history – to “410 AND 450,” meaning that test-takers were required to earn both 1. a standard score of 410 or above on each of the five tests in the battery, AND 2. an average standard score of 450 or above on the five tests in the battery. Note: Canada’s requirement on the Fourth Series is a 450 minimum score on both the individual content area tests and an average for all five tests in the battery. The Fourth Series continues to be administered in 2014 and beyond in certain locations and settings, and the passing standard will remain at the “410 and 450” standard everywhere except Canada, where it will remain at the 450 minimum standard.

Do either of those excerpts answer the question?

I will tell the HEers I know about the possibility of taking US GED in London and then cross examine anyone who tries it

That must be so frustrating minifingerz. Has she found an alternative?

I have found this problem with DS1 who left school at 16 with two National 5 ( Scottish equivalent of Gcse) he also has 6 national 4s but no- one seems to know what they are equivalent to. He falls between two stools, too bright for the very basic vocational courses, not enough qualification for the courses that lead on to HNCs and HNDs or the better apprenticeships. In any case he doesn't know what he wants to do. It seems virtually impossible to sit school exams at FE college ( and we don't have BTEC's or sixth form colleges in Scotland) , if you can' t cope at school anymore for whatever reason you are stuffed. Thank God DS1 managed at B for English! He plans to join the Navy if he can, but it's a shame he hasn't more choice for a second chance.

It's really not that rare a story is it wiggly? I'm glad he has a plan at least.

Yes, I assumed he would be able to take a short break and then fill in the gaps part - time along side a wee job, I should probably have tried harder to keep him in school but they were not helpful at all and he was getting more and more miserable. ( and this was supposed to be a good school)

He has just got his books out to study for the Navy test, loud rap music to help him concentrate!

I don't know about superior/inferior but a UK version would be based on UK GCSE curriculum and papers but with a GED style format.

He has just got his books out to study for the Navy test, loud rap music to help him concentrate!

Well a standard US/CA high school diploma doesn't give you direct access to UK universities

Or US four year universities either, for which the standard admission test is the SAT plus SAT subject tests.

Ah I was wondering what the other part of the equation was.

Just5minswithDacre

If you believe or are putting the view forward that BTEC qualifications are only for producing music technicians then more research on your part is required.

On the other hand if you are putting forward that BTECs as a qualification are worthless then you maybe in the wrong job.

For someone who has applied to work with NEETs you may want to look at why they are NEETs as it sometimes has to do with having to sit exams and not doing a modular based course.

If you believe or are putting the view forward that BTEC qualifications are only for producing music technicians then more research on your part is required.

On the other hand if you are putting forward that BTECs as a qualification are worthless then you maybe in the wrong job.

Neither of those things.

I was just making an observation that for some of the BTEC subjects the popularity and number of places seem to be out of sync with the number of jobs out there.

BTECs in Science or IT (for eg) have direct relevance to a large range of jobs and routes that might come next.

OTOH the Media Production suite of qualifications (for eg) is both very popular and also quite specific to TV/radio/games development technician jobs, which are finite.

So I'm saying some BTECs are more of a gamble than others in terms of specialising.

A generalist academic option at 16 plus would be another useful choice. Especially for those without a strong vocation .

Thanks for clearing that up but it would have been a huge leap to extrapolate that from one comment.

Yes it was a bit of an ambiguous throw-away remark. Sorry. I just get irritated that Science BTEC, for example, isn't promoted more.