To think seeing an older lady curtesy to KM is sad to see

[Julia2016]

Just saw a photo of an older lady curtesying to Kate Middleton, I felt so sad to see it. Sad as to why anyone would feel the need to bow down to another human being.

Every day I shake my head with who people admire in this world and how the general public swallow all these pr machines. 😒

[fascicle]

Bettercall
I'm not spinning anything, just pointing out what I thought would be obvious downsides. I disagree that it's a 'pretty good job' - no amount of money and wealth would be compensation enough for the lack of freedom and privacy and the burden of public expectation and judgement.

bolleaux
Many people might consider it a holiday never having to worry about paying the bills, doing the housework,looking after the children and their education, looking after your own health and accessing medical care. This is what the majority of people need à holiday from.

I wouldn't assume that people don't have worries or stresses because they're wealthy and privileged. They're still human (unless you subscribe to David Icke's shape-shifting lizard theory ).

[Bettercallsaul1]

I think it's the kind of "pretty good job" that many, many people would be glad to relieve them of, if they had the chance. You just have to consider the kind of monotonous, exhausting, badly-paid - and increasingly insecure - jobs that the vast majority of population hold to realise this.

And it's not purely about the activities involved in the job - it's the vast, almost unfathomable (to the vast majority of us) fringe benefits that go with it, as listed by bolleauxnouveau above. They have total freedom from any of the ordinary, but often desperate, worries that the rest of the population endure - lack of pensions, shrinking savings, unemployment, inability to get on the the first rung of the property ladder... The automatic privileges that go with royalty include entry to educational institutions that the rest of the population have to compete for, the finest medical attention on tap, entry to cultural and sporting events that remain an impossible dream for most people. You might not want to swap your job and lifestyle for the Royals' but many thousands of people would consider that the benefits outweighed the disadvantages many, many times over.

But the idea of pitying Kate Middleton for any of the "downsides" of her royal role is ludicrous - it was a "job" she wanted and waited ten years to get.

[fascicle]

Bettercall I think it's bizarre to assume that giving up freedom and living in the public eye is an insignificant price to pay for being/becoming a prominent member of the royal family, with all the 'privilege' it entails. Odd, too, to assume that they have a stress free existence because of their wealth/lifestyle. Evidence through history shows that is clearly not the case - membership of the royal family does not automatically confer happiness and mental wellbeing.

You might not want to swap your job and lifestyle for the Royals' but many thousands of people would consider that the benefits outweighed the disadvantages many, many times over.

It might be an attractive idea, but I doubt that many people would want to, or be able to, permanently give up their freedom and modify their identity to comply with the expectations of family and public.

[bolleauxnouveau]

Then the kindest thing to do would be to release them back into the wild. For their own good of course because I'm so compassionate.

[Bettercallsaul1]

Exactly! If the stresses and strains of the gilded cage prove truly intolerable, the royals have the final resort of abdicating - the rest of the population are usually stuck forever with their problems, be they financial, social or medical.

I am not saying anyway that royal life is ideal - perfection isn't achievable in human life. I am saying that their lot in life, by any objective standards, is free from any of the major stresses which cause unhappiness - poverty, unemployment, worry about children's futures etc.

As for "giving up" privacy etc, that is the known, and obvious, price for joining one of the most famous and privileged families in the world. Kate Middleton had ten years to contemplate the costs/benefits of such a life and went for it enthusiastically. Do you really expect people to sympathise with her because she is now expected to put with the "downsides" as well as reaping the benefits?

[sleeponeday]

I wouldn't assume that people don't have worries or stresses because they're wealthy and privileged. They're still human

They have no worse problems than anyone else, just far fewer of them. And there is reams of evidence showing that rich people tend to live longer, healthier, and less stressful lives than poor people. It isn't a coincidence that the Queen is 90 and married to someone even older, while her mother died well past her century. Her father and sister lived a long time for chain smokers, too. Nobody is free of worries and stresses but poor people don't lose out on any of them, while gaining multiply more. If your argument is genuinely that it doesn't advantage anyone to be privileged then it's such an illogical assertion, I don't honestly know what to say to you.

For many people, part of the joy of a holiday is escaping the constraints of a workplace.

But they don't just get to work in exotic destinations, in five star luxury, with incredible perks and unparalleled job security - they then get lengthy luxurious holidays multiple times a year, too.

And yes. Yes, I would like president in preference to a monarch. If we thought they were useless, we could get rid of them, and we wouldn't have to pay for all their family members, either. Having said that, DH doesn't think we need one at all. He thinks the separation of powers doctrine is redundant in a small country in a modern state, as long as you have a truly independent judiciary, and the armed forces owed their allegiance to the rule of law and our constitutional arrangements, and that it could save us all a packet if we did away with the concept of a separate head of state altogether.

[chilipepper20]

The fact that it's 'free' and luxurious can't make up for the downsides. It's the antithesis of a holiday, in terms of what people actually want from one.

it obviously does make up for it. They aren't trapped. They can leave this life, but they choose not to.

Basically, their work is a ton more vacation like than mine, and their vacations seem slightly less vacation like than mine (though now date far more luxurious).

I'd call it a win, but in particular, since I don't see members of the RF moving to Brazil, they'd call it a win too.

People saying she "flashed her boobs"

I didn't see those comment. Yeah, that's not good.

but it does make a lot more sense to me than a republican doing it, because surely if you're a republican the worth and value of individuals in the system is an irrelevance

Indeed, but I know that if we are to ever have a republic, it will come during a time of an unpopular monarch because monarchists don't get it. So, every gaffe makes me smile.

And, frankly, I see all their gains as ill gotten and as a tax payer it pisses me off. I see the whole lot as a a version of the kardashians or paris hilton that we have to pay for (at least americans don't have to pay for them). So, anything that makes them less popular is good news to me.

As for the OP, yeah, it's a bit gross that certain people as better humans.

[fascicle]

sleeponeday
If your argument is genuinely that it doesn't advantage anyone to be privileged then it's such an illogical assertion, I don't honestly know what to say to you.

Struggling to see how you could think that was my position. This is a specific discussion about a member of the royal family, and by extension, other prominent members. My arguments would not apply to 'minor' members of royalty - they clearly have more freedom and less media spotlight. So no, of course I'm not talking generally about people who are considered to be privileged.

Bettercall
Do you really expect people to sympathise with her because she is now expected to put with the "downsides" as well as reaping the benefits?

Perhaps you'd like to show me where I've called for sympathy. All I'm doing is challenging some very simplistic money must equal happiness arguments in relation to (specific members of) the royal family.

[chilipepper20]

All I'm doing is challenging some very simplistic money must equal happiness arguments in relation to (specific members of) the royal family.

No one said money equals happiness. What people are saying it's a life of enormous privilege, that the only people who count have said with their feet the trade is worth it.

Privilege and wealth is something a lot of people work like crazy to get. it's clearly worth it. And they had to do squat to get it.

[fascicle]

No one said money equals happiness.

It's abundantly implied in relation to this particular discussion.

...that the only people who count have said with their feet the trade is worth it.

Rather depends what their views are retrospectively. Difficult to judge beforehand on limited experience.

[blindsider]

Bettercallsaul


and Kate Middleton definitely wanted it, to put it very mildly!

Have you stopped to consider that maybe she happened to actually fall in love with William??

[chilipepper20]

Rather depends what their views are retrospectively. Difficult to judge beforehand on limited experience.

no, it's not. Why not take their actions at face value?

[Bettercallsaul1]

blindsider - We are talking about the advantages versus disadvantages of the royal lifestyle. I am saying that KM had plenty of time, as a mature adult, to contemplate whether she wished to have such a lifestyle. Having a relationship with a royal involves making such a choice: if she wanted William, he came with the royal lifestyle attached.

Like all other "jobs", you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you voluntarily accept the unique position of member of the Royal family, you have to accept that you pay for the privilege and status involved by surrendering a significant amount of privacy. By becoming a royal, you become a public figure - being a figurehead is the point of modern monarchy.

[Julia2016]

LoubieLou, genuine question, why would you curtesy or bow to the royals you mentioned?

[derxa]

DH doesn't think we need one at all. He thinks the separation of powers doctrine is redundant in a small country in a modern state, as long as you have a truly independent judiciary, and the armed forces owed their allegiance to the rule of law and our constitutional arrangements, and that it could save us all a packet if we did away with the concept of a separate head of state altogether. What a wise owl he is.

[bolleauxnouveau]

I wonder what kind of selection process might lead to a truly independent judiciary.

[OutwiththeOutCrowd]

Are a lot of people really striving for privilege and wealth, as Chilipepper mentioned up thread? If they are, and they think it’ll make them happy, they are chasing a mirage.

I don’t want to romanticise poverty. Show me someone who says, ‘Money isn’t important’ and I’ll show you a rich person. But having money isn’t that important after you get to the point of being comfortable enough.

And what people actually respond to in their lives are changes in their situation.

Suppose you were suddenly catapulted into a life of luxury. There would probably be a feeling of euphoria initially but that feeling would fade away as being moneyed became your status quo.

Such is the calculus of happiness.

Being Royal is, in any case, not a job that would suit every personality type.

Like everyone else I can only judge from photographs and reported utterances but there is something about the behaviour of Kate and William that is indicative of two introverts trying to be extroverts.

To me, recent outings have seen them giving off an uncomfortable here-we-are-enjoying-ourselves-as-hard-as-we-can vibe. Something in their eyes and in their manner suggests they find being relentlessly interested and upbeat whilst on public display onerous. (As would I!) They don’t seem to have much of an appetite for glad-handing. They appear to be pushing themselves through it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Kate has a small bottle of Perma-smile freezing spray secreted in those clutch bags she carries everywhere.

In contrast, it certainly looks like Harry is confident and relaxed in the limelight. He knows how to schmooze. Old ladies. Babies. Dogs. He can schmooze for Britain.

I think there may come a time, one day very soon, when the Queen will put her bone china teacup down with a clatter, shove a corgi from her lap, stand up resolutely and announce, ‘One has had it with all this blimmin’ nepotism and amateurism! I’m going to make them all go through a proper interview process - and pit them against applicants from the general public!!’

Then she’d be on the phone to Alan Sugar to organise a Royal Apprentice show.

I think Harry would get through to the Finals.

As for William and Kate, I’m not sure they’d want the gig enough to take part. Maybe they would decide to downsize to a Semi in Suburbia - with a granny annexe for Carole.

That’s what I think.

Admittedly, though, I do have a slightly over-active imagination!

[fascicle]

Outwith
But having money isn’t that important after you get to the point of being comfortable enough.

Exactly. Money is a hygiene factor. It's not the be all and end all and it won't make the royal family immune from unhappiness, mental wellbeing issues etc. A supposed benefit for the royal family is having other people carry out everyday, routine activities on their behalf. Personally, I would find that hideous, intrusive and not at all beneficial.

[bolleauxnouveau]

I had no idea the royal family were suffering so much, my compassionate nature compels me to relieve them of their burden.

[Julia2016]

Don't forget that have several people fawning over them, telling them how great they are, they must believe they're magical. 😒

[thebestfurchinchilla]

You don't have to curtsey to any of the royals. Maybe, being an older person, has traditional values and curtseyed to the wife of the future king. It's her choice just as I would choose not to.

[derxa]

they must believe they're magical I doubt it.

[hippiedays]

Reading this thread it seems we are supposed to feel sorry for them. They have the option of giving it all up if it is such an intrusion and hardship. I don't see them rushing to do so......wonder why!

[fascicle]

They have the option of giving it all up if it is such an intrusion and hardship. I don't see them rushing to do so......wonder why!

Not straightforward. They might not want to damage family relationships or the institution they were born into, even if they don't entirely agree with it (or it with them). They might think they have a duty to fulfil a role. And abdicating or leaving would be no guarantee of a decrease in media attention.

[hippiedays]

Perhaps they should let Zara Phillips show them how it is done. She managed to lead a seemingly normal (albeit upper class) life.