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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the current benefits system sets single parents up to commit fraud?

377 replies

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 18/05/2016 23:13

I am a single parent, I'm currently a student and earn a small amount from self employment, so receive some housing benefit, CTC, WTC and CB.

Let's say, hypothetically, my bf moved in with me (there is no real danger of that happening for a very long time, but let's pretend). He earns £50k a year. If he moved in, as far as the system would see it, my children are his children, and therefore he would be jointly financially responsible for them. I would instantly lose all of my benefits, leaving me around £1100 a month worse off. This would leave me in a position of being no longer financially independent, and feeling like I had to go to him, cap in hand, to ask for money. Money, which often would be spent buying things for my kids.

My bf is a very nice chap and all that, but I doubt he'd cough up a grand a month to provide for me and my children. I doubt there's many blokes that would. His dd would also lose out, as through suddenly having gained two extra children, the maintenance she is entitled to would go right down.

Bearing all this in mind, I can see why many single parents are tempted to move their partner in 'on the sly'. Of course this is very risky, but only for the single parent (usually the female). As the benefits claimant it is the single parent who will be prosecuted, the partner they'd moved in would have no repercussions, even though no doubt they'd done quite well in terms of their own living costs, probably chipping in a token amount towards food and bills.

I think this makes it very hard for single parents to ever have a serous relationship, unless they happened to be a high earner themselves, so benefits weren't an issue. Or I suppose if both adults were on benefits, as they wouldn't lose out there. I'm not sure what the answer is, other than a citizens wage (which will never happen).

OP posts:
Fourormore · 22/05/2016 18:07

just like it is for everyone who only had children they could pay for.

I hate, hate, hate this attitude. People are only an illness, an accident or a divorce away from not being able to afford the the children you could afford when you conceived, unless they are very fortunate.

cruikshank · 22/05/2016 18:22

I agree, fourormore, plus it is an entirely different prospect to have a person who is not their parent agree to support your children as a joint enterprise compared to deciding to make a joint lifelong commitment to have children together from the outset. Especially when you have been burnt by said lifelong commitment falling down around your ears once already. I mean, if you can't even trust the man who had kids within you to stick around, how can you trust the next guy off the car and?

cruikshank · 22/05/2016 18:27

Sorry that should say "cab rank"!

Just5minswithDacre · 22/05/2016 18:34

I hate, hate, hate this attitude. People are only an illness, an accident or a divorce away from not being able to afford the the children you could afford when you conceived, unless they are very fortunate

Absolutely.

Just5minswithDacre · 22/05/2016 18:35

the man who had kids within you

That's going in my 'Top 10 MN typos' Cruik - very evocative Grin

cruikshank · 22/05/2016 18:58

Blimmin phone I can't even blush on it!

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 22/05/2016 21:05

Yep - I certainly didn't choose to be in the situation I'm in, being solely responsible both physically and financially for raising 2 children.

Perhaps pregnant women should have to undergo a financial assessment at their booking in appointment and only be allowed to continue with the pregnancy if finances allow it Hmm

OP posts:
AppleSetsSail · 22/05/2016 21:27

I hate, hate, hate this attitude. People are only an illness, an accident or a divorce away from not being able to afford the the children you could afford when you conceived, unless they are very fortunate

I hate, hate hate the attitude that everyone is powerless over their fate.

Get to know someone before you have children with him - nothing short of several years. Find a career you love, or even just a job that you like. Don't have children without getting married, or before you're 30, and have only 2. Consider getting insurance.

If you've taken these steps and you're still reliant upon benefits - congratulations, you're an outlier.

Fourormore · 22/05/2016 21:45

How much does a couple have to earn to be able to afford to live, married, aged 30+ and with only two (presumably entirely healthy) children entirely without state support?
Is it realistic for everybody to earn that much? Or do we live in a society where state dependence is at some level inevitable because some wages are just too low?

cannotlogin · 22/05/2016 21:54

apple

Do tell us what it's like to be so perfect, won't you? I did everything - and I mean everything 'right' when it came to life, education, time served in a relationship, marriage, finances.....and none of that stopped him buffering off when it suited him. Maybe have a go at him rather than me? I stayed, after all, and am bringing up my children.

EatinAintCheatin · 22/05/2016 22:04

Op I get what you mean

EatinAintCheatin · 22/05/2016 22:04

Op I get what you mean

MeMySonAndl · 22/05/2016 22:24

Well Apple, I was married for 5 years before we decided to try for DS, he was no accident, I was in fertility treatment. ExH was a very involved parent, cooked for him, did the bedtime routine every single night and used to take him out on Saturdays on his own for "men's days out". We split amicably.

New partner comes into the scene and.. he has not seen his child in years and refuses to pay the minimum 15% maintenance, even when his income is hitting the 6 figures.

There's no way to know for sure.

MeMySonAndl · 22/05/2016 23:31

"I stayed, after all, and am bringing up my children."

That's the tragedy of being a single mother, they fuck off And leave you with the lion's share of the responsibility of bringing the children up are the ones to blame. Angry

MeMySonAndl · 22/05/2016 23:39

And just because I'm in a roll,.. I had a career I loved before I get married, I was the main earner, I supported exh to develop his. My only mistake was exactly what has been suggested again and again in this thread: trusting a man to provide financially for me and DS.

Had I not taken the idiotic decision to take a break to become a SAHM for a few years, I would be the one with the big salary and wouldn't need TC to meet DS' basic needs.

Just5minswithDacre · 23/05/2016 01:14

Get to know someone before you have children with him - nothing short of several years. Find a career you love, or even just a job that you like. Don't have children without getting married, or before you're 30, and have only 2. Consider getting insurance.

If you've taken these steps and you're still reliant upon benefits - congratulations, you're an outlier.

Nope, not an outlier at all. Read the literature and the statistical research; The majority of single parents are thirtysomething divorced females and age doesn't protect single parents from poverty.

Just5minswithDacre · 23/05/2016 01:16

Not only that, the very fact of being a single parent hugely inflates any individual's risk of falling below the poverty line, irrespective of other factors.

Rebecca2014 · 23/05/2016 05:59

Why anyone would want to fool the system I don't know as guess what, relying on benefits because your a single person doesn't last forever...one day your kids will be grown up and your income from your job will be your main income and a lot women will be in shock.

I got married and had a baby at the age of 22, when I just turned 25 I became a single mum. I work part time but I hate relying on benefits, hate the fact I'm under the mercy of the corrupt Tory government. I am going to university in September to do a Social Work degree, I be 30 when I finish the degree and qualify as a social worker. I am relying on no man, no government to support me and my daughter...when that day comes I be so happy.

user1463231665 · 23/05/2016 06:12

You can know for sure though if you don't give up full time work and pick work which is high enough paid what you can afford childcare out of your work and still survive. That is what plenty of us do. Then it doesn't matter if a man goes off or state benefits are cut or protected - you are protected. Obviously as said above there can be some outliers - you might be struck by lightening or whatever but on the whole it tends to work. It's why my parents waited 10 years to have childen ( to build up careers, buy a place etc) and my grandfather 10 years more than that even.

Fourormore · 23/05/2016 08:38

and pick work which is high enough paid

Is this realistic for everybody?

AppleSetsSail · 23/05/2016 09:20

Just5minswithDacre

How does the fact that the majority of single parents are 30-something women contradict what I've suggested?

Not only that, the very fact of being a single parent hugely inflates any individual's risk of falling below the poverty line, irrespective of other factors.

Agreed and as above - not sure how this contradicts what I've said.

My post was in response to this:

I hate, hate, hate this attitude. People are only an illness, an accident or a divorce away from not being able to afford the the children you could afford when you conceived, unless they are very fortunate

While this is technically almost true, it pays no heed to the fact that there are measures one can take to reduce the likelihood of this nightmare scenario. Having fewer children, later, with someone you've been with a long time - these are all poverty-reducing steps. I don't need to google to find out that this is true.

The fact that some men are able to masquerade as sensible partners for several years before fucking off is hardly news to me.

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 23/05/2016 09:22

Bearing in mind that I know teachers and nurses who are reliant on tax credits to make ends meet, I don't think it's that straightforward to assume everyone is capable of being a high flier and have a career which will pay them enough to be able to totally independent of the state.

We live in a society where the cost of living far outstrips the average wage. People don't have the same life chances - not everyone has access to a good education, supportive upbringing etc.

OP posts:
AppleSetsSail · 23/05/2016 09:28

Bearing in mind that I know teachers and nurses who are reliant on tax credits to make ends meet, I don't think it's that straightforward to assume everyone is capable of being a high flier and have a career which will pay them enough to be able to totally independent of the state.

There's obviously a terrible disconnect if a nurse or teacher can't live independently of the state (I assume by 'independent' you mean not reliant upon means-tested cash benefits). Brexit.

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 23/05/2016 09:39

I'm not sure Brexiting will be the answer. Neoliberalism is the problem, and that's not going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

OP posts:
Fourormore · 23/05/2016 09:40

There's obviously a terrible disconnect if a nurse or teacher can't live independently of the state

This is why I've asked if it's realistic to expect that everybody can live without benefits or tax credits. I don't think it is.