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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Be unable to ignore what's happening.

52 replies

Curviest · 17/05/2016 18:28

I've recently become closer friends with a neighbour I've known for a while and I'm worried about her marriage.

She and he were both happily married to others and all four used to go line dancing together. Then his wife and her husband died. Soon, the widower (now 67) proposed to her. He was handsome and personable, she'd always liked him, he owned a house, a nice car, and had savings. My friend was then 62, lonely, and stuck in a grotty bedsit on a bare state pension. Unsurprisingly, she accepted and they've been married for two years. From the outside, her marriage appears perfect. They are both very fit and healthy, and always out walking about town.

However, she has revealed certain things that I find disturbing. She has only ever told me these things drip by drip, and only because I pressed her to explain something I found weird or inexplicable.

Her pension is paid into his account. She doesn't have a bank account or credit card of her own and is not on his. If she needs cash she has to explain why and he then decides if she can have it. He does all the shopping and cooking, and controls her entire food intake. For example he buys her a bar of chocolate once a week and hands her two squares each evening after dinner. She is not allowed to eat anything other than what he gives her. She can't eat out or at a friend's house. She is very thin, maybe 8 stone at about 5ft 9.

He only lets her buy clothes from a charity shop, and even then he has to be with her to approve each item. He won't let her have a TV. They are on the Net but he restricts her time on it and monitors her surfing. She is allowed to read the news and email her daughter and grandkids, who have emigrated. They have a joint email address so he reads all her emails and the responses.

She is not allowed to leave the house without his permission. He usually gives it, but he has to know exactly where she is going and who she is seeing and what she is doing and when she will be home. If she says 6pm she has to be home at 6pm. He allowed her to watch a sporting event on my TV once and although we only live 100 metres apart, the second the event finished at 3pm he rang her mobile and said come home immediately (not for any reason).

She is only allowed to go to an event, theatre, and suchlike if he approves of the show or act etc. He then hands her the exact money she needs for a ticket. I invited her to a charity-raising event once (I bought the tickets) but he refused to let her go because he didn't approve of that particular charity.

There are many other ways in which he controls her but I won't list any more as I am sure you get the picture.

Now, naturally, I have told her what he is doing isn't fair or humane or healthy. I offered her a room in my house if she wants to leave him but she says she cannot ever leave, because they are married (vows mean a lot to her) and she doesn't want to live in poverty for the rest of her life. So I said, OK if you HAVE to stay, at least stand up to him, but she said she is scared he'll throw her out. She has a lovely home, a nice car and because he doesn't hit her she refuses to name what he does as abuse. She said that so long as she does what he says, to the letter, then he gives her a really happy and comfortable life.

She just wants me never to mention how I feel about it, but every time we meet I can't just carry on as though she isn't being treated like that. Obviously it affects our friendship because we can't just pop out for lunch or go anywhere without her having to keep going back to him to ask permission.

I'm torn 50-50 between "it's her right to choose to put up with it" and "How can you just sit back and see a woman suffer abuse"?

What would you do?

OP posts:
specialsubject · 18/05/2016 12:13

I have messaged you - but he clearly doesn't give a stuff about his vows; 'love, honour and cherish', does he?

Curviest · 18/05/2016 13:00

Thanks for the replies ladies.

The daughter lives in Australia and there isn't a hope in hell of discovering her married surname without asking my friend, who of course would instantly be suspicious of why I'd asked. She knows how much I deplore her situation and I believe that, if she suspected I intended to go behind her back and tell her daughter about the situation that would be the end of our friendship. It's already teetering because she knows I dislike what he is doing.

My friend is not on Facebook so it's not like I can search through her friends list to find her daughter.

Since I found out, I can no longer go to her house because I don't trust myself not to kick him in the b......ks. I guess we women are all different in how much we can tolerate in the way of male chauvinism. Despite being nearly 60 myself (someone upthread said older women are indoctrinated etc) I feel passionately angry about this kind of thing.

Ironically, she and her husband work as volunteers at a pensioners' advice centre. They appear to be the perfect, happy couple.

I saw him in the street yesterday and it was all I could do not to confront him and punch him on the nose. Perhaps it would be worth paying a fine if it meant his bullying ways were exposed in the local paper!

OP posts:
TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 18/05/2016 13:11

I really think you should make every effort possible to trace her daughter, casually extract info - surname, job, town etc

^^This. And then tell her what you have told us.

I could not stand by and watch this happen.

Have you asked her what will happen to her if he pre-deceases her which is highly likely? Will all his worldly assets go to her, or straight to his kids putting her back into bedsit land?
It might be better to divorce him while he still alive and fleece him for being an absolute c*nt [a word I don't ever use]

TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams · 18/05/2016 13:12

Did the daughter go to school locally ? There are FB pages for most secondary schools now that Friends Reunited has died a death

Just5minswithDacre · 18/05/2016 13:14

Don't go behind her back to find her daughter. She trusts you and that might turn out to be key.

EveryoneElsie · 18/05/2016 13:16

This is elder abuse and there is no way I'd turn a blind eye to it.

Just5minswithDacre · 18/05/2016 13:18

If you want to help her be prepared for a very long haul "softly softly" approach of mainly just being her friend.

I doubt "needing a man to love her" is the issue; The psychological effects of being closely controlled and bullied do render even the feistier of women apathetic. It's a very real effect and nothing whatsoever to do with choosing to be a doormat.

KittiesInsane · 18/05/2016 13:40

You said her marriage vows mean a lot to her.

Does she believe HE should abide by them too? He has presumably promised to endow or share all worldly goods with her, for instance, yet he appears to be quite happy to breach that by not letting her have access to them.

LadyReuleaux · 18/05/2016 13:46

Oh how awful. Don't stop being friends with her. I'd see her as often as possible and while trying not to badger her about it, I'd keep letting her know I was always there with a place to escape to if she ever needed it, and support if she wants to leave.

I'd also, at a good moment if possible, let her know that this is coercive control and that it is a crime, so she'd get lots of support, and also that as she's married she would probably get a settlement that would allow her to live comfortably.

The poor woman. Abused people can and do come round to a different way of seeing things and decide to make a move. I had a friend who was in an appalling relationship and I was horrified she put up with the twat. I said "I'll always support you if or when you want to leave" and thought she never would. But that day did come and good for her.

VioletSunshine · 18/05/2016 13:55

What would you do?

Offer to help re-lay her patio and hope to God there's something there that will annul the marriage. That's how scary this man sounds from your OP :(

Mind you, if his wife died suddenly, how he's treating your friend could be a really extreme way of handling his grief, like he's afraid if he doesn't control absolutely everything, then he may suddenly lose her too.

That doesn't make it at all right how your friend is being treated though. Since vows mean a lot to her, and if she would otherwise be safe to leave him, is there any way you could show her he's actual broken those vows himself and thus she wouldn't be breaking them if she left him?

CarolH78 · 18/05/2016 14:10

It's a horrible situation and I can understand why you're so angry and frustrated BUT it is her choice. Part of being a good friend, in my opinion, is supporting someone when they make choices you disagree with. It sounds very much like she has weighed her options and this is a price she has decided she is willing to pay in exchange for financial security (if you can call it that when he controls her every penny), companionship (hah) and perhaps the status of being, superficially at least, part of a picture perfect married couple. Is it a price I'd be willing to pay? Hell, no. But that doesn't mean everyone feels the same and we shouldn't demand that every person has the same priorities.

You may not agree with her choice but it IS her choice, and from her point of view she is being rational. Look at it this way:

Yes, he dictates every mouthful of food...but if she were living alone on her pension her lack of money would be dictating her food intake instead. Is that so much better? Many pensioners have to choose between heating and eating sometimes.

Yes, he dictates when and where she can go out...but at least she CAN go out to theatres etc, even if not always when she wants. Living just on her pension she might never have the money to go out to those kinds of events, drive a nice car, live in a comfortable house, etc.

Yes, he's a controlling freak...but at least she has someone to come home to, spend time with, and who, apparently, she gets on with as long as she doesn't "step out of line". Loneliness can be a powerful motivator and for many people just having someone - anyone - to share a home and bed with is very important.

Just to emphasise - I'm not in any way excusing his behaviour. It's absolutely abuse and he sounds odious. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to choose to stay with him. It's her choice and it's very possible that she really would be less happy on her own, living in poverty and loneliness. It wouldn't be my choice, or yours obviously, but that really doesn't matter. It's her life, no one else's.

And I really don't think you have the right to contact her daughter. Even apart from the problems that might trigger, she will probably feel (accurately) that you have gone behind her back and that's likely to damage your friendship. From the sound of it she needs a good friend who can just be there for her, listen to her and support her. A huge part of support is respect for someone's choices. She's an adult not a child, she's perfectly capable of making her own decisions.

emmalimesmom · 18/05/2016 18:44

there is'nt much you can do other than listen if she wants to talk.
at least she knows you are there for her if ever she feels strong enough to leave

EveryoneElsie · 19/05/2016 10:08

Are you strong enough to listen to ten years of this? I wouldnt be.
They both need help.

Curviest · 19/05/2016 17:41

Things have taken a turn for the worse! Oh dear!

She came to me in tears. Her DD in Australia had another child a few months back and naturally enough wants her mum to meet her new grandchild. So my friend asked her husband if they could go. He said he doesn't want to go so she said that's a pity, I shall have to go by myself then. And he said, "no, I don't allow it. I want you here." So she pleaded with him and pointed out that she rarely sees her (only) DD or her GC, and it wasn't fair for him to stop her. He doesn't need her - he is very fit and well and sprightly and has two DD from his first marriage living only 30 miles away. By the way, my friend goes with him to see HIS children a lot!

So she comes to me for advice and I said it's cruel to stop you from seeing your DD and DG! I told her to insist he let her go, and give her access to her own money to buy a ticket, or get the money from her DD. So she goes back home and tells him this and he glares at her and says, "if you do, there will be no home here for you when you get back". So she rang me when he was in the bath and tells me this, and I am sticking up for her and egging her on to take control of her life and telling her he had gone too far now and he should not prevent her seeing her only blood relations. Then suddenly his voice comes on the line - he's been listening on the bedroom extension! Oh jeez! So he tells me to stop interfering in their marriage and then rings off, and ten minutes later she rings and says she is sorry, but she cannot see me any more. I said, is that what he is telling you? Then she rings off without answering.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 19/05/2016 18:23

sadly the only surprise about this is that it has happened so quickly.

she knows where you are and what she can do. Let's hope she decides to do it. All she has to do is walk out. I hope she does.

Curviest · 19/05/2016 19:07

Well I daren't ring or email her as I don't want to stir things up. But yes, she knows where I am and that I can set up a bed for her whenever she wants. I wish now that we lived further apart, or that he didn't know my address.

I just have to sit tight and keep a box of Kleenex ready.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 19/05/2016 19:43

You are a good friend. She chooses to put up with this but you don't, if by any chance he threatens you then call the cops.

dcourtney · 19/05/2016 21:59

Not much advice to add that hasn't already been said, but from being in an abusive relationship myself I can say you have been doing the exact right thing: be her friend, be honest and just let her know you're always there. It's all you can do, she has to come to the decision to leave herself. I did, eventually, and I was grateful to the friends who had supported me despite wanting me to leave him very much. It's a hard line to walk.

DilbyGlipob · 19/05/2016 22:16

In that case though, you wouldn't now be unreasonable to try to track down and contact her daughter. If she has effectively ended the friendship anyway, you have nothing to lose. The chances are she won't tell her dd the real reason she isn't going to visit, which might risk alienating the dd and isolating herself still further.

Magicpaintbrush · 19/05/2016 22:32

If she is stopping contact with you on his say so then I would suggest that this would be the appropriate time to track down her daughter and make her aware of her mother's appalling situation.

He is ruining your friends life. How dare he treat her as though she has no right to make a single decision of her own?? Who the hell does he think he is?? Despicable piece of work.

Magicpaintbrush · 19/05/2016 22:35

It seems to me that a divorce and a new life in Australia with her daughter is the order of the day. What a waste of life, to spend it being dictated to all the live long day. That is not living.

ExasperatedAlmostAlways · 19/05/2016 22:51

Do you know what her and her husband surname was? You could try tracking the daughter down that way. Most people on Facebook will have their surname and then maiden name in brackets so if you put in a search it may still come up.

Curviest · 20/05/2016 11:12

No, she never mentioned her SIL's surname, plus I don't even know her DD's maiden name as she is the daughter of my friend's first husband, whose name I don't know.

All I know is her first name and that she's in Oz and married with 2 DK. Not a hope in hell of finding her.

So this morning there is a note pushed through my letter box. It reads: "Sorry, I cannot see you any more. K." That's it.

Just saw this on the BBC News. Would love to send it to her... maybe print it out and push it through their letterbox...

A man who controlled his partner's social life and told her what she could eat and wear has been jailed for almost two-and-a-half years in one of the first convictions of its kind.
Mohammed Anwaar, 27, pleaded guilty to coercive and controlling behaviour.
Legislation to make this type of behaviour a criminal offence was only introduced in December.
Anwaar, of Charlotte Road, Sheffield, also admitted nine counts of assault and criminal damage.
South Yorkshire Police said Anwaar had exercised "controlling and abusive behaviour over his partner" for about two years, beginning in May 2014.
Det Con Ian Chamberlain said: "He told her what clothes to wear, when she could see her friends and family and made sure he was with her at all times.
"In this case, both physical and mental abuse occurred over a prolonged period, and I would like to praise the woman in coming forward and reporting the matter to us.
"This has enabled us to not only bring Anwaar to justice for his actions, but to also provide this woman with the necessary support in order to help her move forward with her life."
Supt Natalie Shaw, the force's lead for domestic abuse, said it was the first successful conviction under the new legislation in South Yorkshire.
Speaking in December Alison Saunders, the director of public prosecutions, said controlling or coercive behaviour can "limit victims' basic human rights".

OP posts:
Panadbois · 20/05/2016 13:26

Seems identical to me. If it's an offence, can you not phone 101?

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