WIBU to not go on holiday due to pregnancy and Zika virus

[PinkyOfPie]

Due to go to Spain on a large family holiday in July for 10 days. I'll be around 4 months pregnant.

According to WHO there have been no Zika virus outbreaks in Europe yet, but according to various sources it is expected in the summer once "mosquito season" starts. Mosquitoes flock to me like a magnet usually, I must have tasty blood, and I'm nervous about going. I would send DH and 3yo DD on their own and stay here, but it would break my heart to do so (what on earth would I actually do for 10 days?!). On the other hand, it's a bit of a risk to take for Bump.

My mum said she'd come up for 10 days and keep me company and have trips away in UK etc, but it's not the same as being with my DH and DD.

AIBU and hysterical to consider staying at home?

zaurak having seen dengue I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Thank you to your husband and all who work on these medical wonders.

Yes the marmite advice has me intrigued too! I love marmite so this would be a delightful form of mosquito repellent for me

It's a myth. The only thing which is clinically proven to repel insects is DEET. People will tell you that eating marmite, or garlic, or using tea tree, citronella and all manner of other things will stop bites but they are wrong. Max strength Jungle Formula all the way.

The advice to pregnant women in zika areas is to cover up, and use repellant containing at least 20% deet on are exposed areas. The mossies who carry zika normally bite from the waist down, so pay special attention to legs, ankles, feet. This was the advice I heard from my Ob/GYN last week - I'm 25 weeks pregnant and I live in southern US. Zika carried by mosquitos is not here yet, but it's almost certain to be here within the next couple of weeks. It's terrifying, and the latest findings suggest contracting zika in the third trimester can still be pretty bad (killing brain cells, sometimes causing still birth). What can I do? I have a full time job and I can't just uproot my other 2 kids and go home to the UK. Like every other pregnant woman here, I try to keep mossies out of the house (constantly nagging the kids not to leave the back door open). So far the government here hasn't even released funding for mosquito control, they'll wait until its a big problem and then react.

Shanster - my heart totally goes out to you and other women whose lives are directly or indirectly affected by this horrendous virus. Since relaxing after my last scan at 32 weeks, I spend a great deal of time thinking about the women who can't relax, either because they have a baby with a disorder, are waiting to find out if they do or live in an area where they might get it.

It's so easy in the UK to carry on as normal whilst this affects women in other countries.

I honestly feel a bit like the last few months have been a bit of a living nightmare. I've also had severe complications due to chromosomal factors with one of my twins who passed away last week which has compounded my concern. However, even if it was just zika on its own I would still have had the lack of sleep, the terror before each scan, the nightmares etc etc.

I dread to think what happens if it reaches Europe this year, the potential impact of this disease is just monumental.

This website showing current geographical transmission is updated weekly
ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/zika_virus_infection/zika-outbreak/Pages/Zika-countries-with-transmission.aspx

Women thinking of becoming pregnant or pregnant are advised not to travel to these countries and can get a doctors letter for work/insurance etc

Men travelling to these countries are advised to have protected sex for at least a month on return as the virus can be transmitted by semen

Women who are pregnant, have travelled to these countries and had a rash/flu-like illness are advised to contact their GP/obstetrician for blood testing of the mother and enhanced monitoring of the fetus.

Prevention in endemic areas includes getting rid of stagnant water, mosquito screens over windows and doors, mosquito netting over beds and prams, clothes soaked in permethrin, wear long sleeved tops and long trousers, put on DEET over sunscreen on exposed skin (not under clothes) Do not use DEET on children under 2 months and use reduced (

Though current vaccine candidates (eg bharat biotech) will take a while to be trialled properly, the virus has just been cloned leading to the possibility of a monoclonal antibody which may help but at present there is no cure and the congenital micocephaly syndrome in newborns can be severe.

ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/zika_virus_infection/zika-outbreak/Pages/Frequently-Asked-Questions.aspx#Pregnancy

European map
ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopics/vectors/vector-maps/Pages/VBORNET_maps.aspx

I wouldn't go. We were in Jamaica in March and there is no chance of me getting pregnant and Still I was extremely paranoid not to get bitten. I've had cancer and have a suppressed immune system so just getting the virus would be bad enough for me personally. We were at a resort that must have been sprayed up to the hilt because the only time I saw a mosquito we were zip lining in the trees. I used Deet and lemon eucalyptus oil (works great) and did not get bitten...but if I was pregnant, no way.

Have they changed their thinking about men getting it and passing it onto their partners? Because two months ago they were advising anyone who was going to have unprotected sex in the next Year not to go because it can spread from man to woman through sex and. Has that changed?

I've just come back from Cyprus. Got eaten alive by mozzies (no zika as far as I'm aware) plenty of pregnant ladies there. I would avoid South America etc but feel
Spain would be fine. Your choice op

Is 50% deet safe in pregnancy?

I've never knowingly been bitten by a mosquito (I'd know if I had I assume) so I do wonder if taking all the recommended precautions I might be OK?

Oh Shanster, you've put my holiday worries into perspective! Sorry you're having to live with this threat.
Thanks for sharing funny.

"Have they changed their thinking about men getting it and passing it onto their partners?" No, that hasn't changed if a man is thought to have been exposed to zika the advice is to use a condom for any kind of sexual contact (including penis to mouth oral) with a pregnant woman. CDC link

The WHO is having a large consultation in Portugal 22nd-24th June so anyone travelling after that will probably be given a lot more information to be able to make their decision.

Those maps and links are really useful funny thank you.
And that's really good to know oldboots

No, 50% deet is not considered safe. The usual advice is that pregnant women stick to 10% or less but they may have revised that upwards due to the relative risks. Remember that this advice is for women using it through pregnancy as well.
The specific mozzie in question bites in the day. If you are somewhere you're at risk of being bitten you need to take multiple precautions: cover up, deet on skin and clothes (I always used to spray a slightly stronger solution on cuffs etc)
Deet is the only thing you can rely on BUT things like citronella etc do have a mild repellent effect so use them too! Cover up with long pants and sleeves. If you use cotton clothing you can spray deet on the outside of it.

Shanster - that's pretty scary. Have you eliminated all sources of standing water on your property? Check for tiny pools of water in things like tyres, puddles, plant pots, etc. Drain everything and if you can't drain it chuck bleach in it (if you can do so safely)

The virus seems to live on in semen for quite some time. I know they've found men in Ebola hit countries with positive semen samples after a year.

As for marmite... Well mozzies hone in on you via heat, the co2 you exhale and possibly other compounds as well. There is some evidence that higher b vitamin levels prevent them biting but no one has ever done any solid work on it. I know people who've worked with malaria vaccine and mozzies a lot and they do t dismiss the idea, although it's small and can't be relied on.

Thing is - we can spend hours quantifying a largely unknown risk but the fact remains you won't enjoy the holiday when you get there. You will be on edge.

You don't need that stress on holiday so no, I wouldn't go for that reason alone.

We made the decision to cancel our holiday to Barbados back in March as there were three known cases of the Zika virus there. We were fully refunded by our airline (family of 4) and the very kind lady we were renting from even returned our deposit as she said she had children and could understand our decision. It may be worth talking to the airline to see if they will allow you to postpone in light of recent predictions about increased risk in Europe. Our airline allowed us to choose to postpone, rebook elsewhere or full refund. We didn't need to go through our insurance at all.

For us it came down to

1. we knew that there were reported cases of Zika on the island
2. discussions with GP, midwife and paediatricians who all said they would not go and recommended not going
3. the risk of harm to our baby
4. not feeling like we would be able to relax at all as we would be so worried about bites.

As others have said, this particular mosquito bites in the day so nighttime nets are not preventative. If you do go then make sure that any containers of standing water are emptied as this is where they lay their eggs.

It is a really tough decision and there are lots of unknowns at the minute, but I am sure you will make the decision that is best for your family with the available information at that time.

Having a small panic. Currently in Tenerife with DD1 who is 25+4 days pregnant, been here almost a week. So far no mosquito bites or even mosquitos and l don't want to panic her but should l get some DEET for her?
I wasn't aware that Zika could cause problems in later stages of pregnancy

www.independent.co.uk/news/zika-virus-could-spread-to-europe-this-summer-world-health-organisation-warns-a7035461.html

Even the news reports it as a 'low' risk they 'might' come to Europe. The headlines are scarier than the details.

www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/emergencies/zika-virus/news/news/2016/05/who-calls-on-countries-to-prepare-as-zika-virus-expected-to-spread-in-europe-in-late-spring-and-summer

...sorry posted too soon. The areas of risk are "in particular on the island of Madeira and the north-eastern coast of the Black Sea."

The Zika virus is reportedly due to arrive in parts of europe over the next few weeks, having read the stories about the women and babies affected by this nasty virus I would not consider 10 days on my jollies a worthwhile risk. Enjoy some time with your mum, get some much needed rest and remember Spain will still be there next year.

I'm only about 4 weeks. Just had my first GP appointment and asked about this as we are going to Italy next month. I plan to keep up to date with developments, but to keep plans as they are unless there are any confirmed cases. GP would advise against travel if cases were confirmed in the country we were travelling to and could write us a letter for insurance. I panicked yesterday when I read the news stories, but after sleeping on it I'm trying to think a bit more pragmatically. She also confirmed deet was safe for both pregnant and breastfeeding women.

Just wanted to add - about DEET - the higher concentrations just mean that the effect lasts longer. (I have recently been researching what insect repellent to use on my toddler and read this in a lot of places). So you can use a lower concentration and just apply it very regularly (every couple of hours was what I read) and you will get the same protection as from applying a higher concentration product less regularly, apparently.

Can't imagine what it is like living in an area affected. My heart goes out to you. Scooby I just can't imagine the stress and heartache you've been through. I think when you have an IVF pregnancy you should get a free pass on pregnancy problems xxx

First world problem in comparison to those on this thread, but my friends are getting married and she is Mexican; their plans for their wedding have been completely tipped upside down - at our age almost all their friends are in the TTC / pregnant / possibly TTC in the next year boat. They were planning something in a resort by the sea but now it's uprooted to mexico city so people can fly in and stay above altitude for the whole holiday. But I expect lots of people who would've gone won't take the risk.

I just wouldn't risk it if I were you.

In the northeast USA, we have a far worse mosquito virus than Zika! It's the eastern equine virus and it typically strikes in eastern Massachusetts, southwest Maine and southeast New Hampshire.

It has been confirmed to be in parts of Vermont, at least since 2012, 2013 or 2014. I'm very paranoid of being bitten by a mosquito, especially from August to November! The virus, also known as "EEE", typically strikes in August, September and October. It typically isn't detected before August.

That virus makes West Nile look like nothing!

But, the incubation period isn't as long as hantaviruses.

The eastern equine virus is more common during wet years.
2006 and 2011 were very wet years.
The eastern equine virus killed emus at a farm in Vermont during 2011, which had a record amount of rain.

You will know if you got it within 14 days. If it's been 14 days since the last mosquito bite, you're fine.

---

The American version of hantavirus is deadly and carried by deer mice.

I honestly would rather have a rat in the house! The rats we have were introduced from Europe and Asia and thus don't carry this strain of hantavirus.

Unfortunately, deer mice appear to be about as common in Vermont as in California! That's why I panic when I see anything that looks like mouse feces!