AIBU to be the only person concerned that the PTA treasurer seems to have gone missing....

[PTAmissing]

With all the PTA money?

She's been treasurer for years, no children at the school anymore.

She usually attends roughly 1 of every 4 meetings. She hasn't been to one for 6 months. She won't answer the phone or the door, doesn't reply to emails or texts. Chair went to her house and she didn't answer the door although it looked like she was in. We have no access to the money or accounts and the school is lending us money to get back off her at some indeterminate time in the future.

We have the school fate soon and she has all the info on stalls etc not to mention the money we need to buy things! She owes one of the parents about £50 for things they bought from their company for the PTA xmas fate.

Nobody else seems concerned! I really got angry about it at the last meeting and said this is ridiculous, we have no idea how much is in the account, we can't get hold of her, we have no working float. Apparently she has family drama at the moment and thats why she's unavailable but she still wants to be treasurer. I raised the possibility that there could be something dodgy going on and got shut down by the chair who said its not possible as there are two signatories on the account (because she couldn't just forge a signature???)

AIBU to think they should be taking this a bit more seriously given there is over £7000 (at the last count) of money that has been donated by the parents fgs, not to just sit in an account that nobody can get into?!

I ask because I think parents want to have a different relationship with their kids' primary school than their secondary, and the PTA function in a primary is more mixed fundraising / getting involved. I wouldn't expect to be baking for my secondary kids' school. Your contribution thing is a really good idea as long as you're prepared to lose the relationship aspect, which I think is completely fine in the right context, such as a secondary school.

Re volunteering though, it's how you ask, isn't it? If you want someone to do something, you need to ask them directly, not rely on them turning up to a meeting and offering to run a stall.

The direct approach is best.
Don't rely on here say.
Whether you like it or not, these things often are run on a popularity basis.

Just because the Queen Bee says ''don't bother asking her, she won't want to do it, she's too busy/stressed'' doesn't mean that's necessarily the case.
Maybe QB only wants her close circle of friends helping.

Sounds petty, but it happens. A Lot.

the PTA function in a primary is more mixed fundraising / getting involved.

Right. Which is where the professional martyrdom and lemon drizzle cakes come in.

What you're essentially doing is paying, in time, money and energy the costs of a small group of (usually) mothers having a get together and holding events they want to do. As a side-effect they raise a small amount of money which worryingly frequently gets stolen anyway; the treasurer who dipped into the money to pay the bills that month and couldn't repay it, and the next month, and the next, is hardly a rare and strange creature).

To compound that, they then whine that if people don't attend events, the events won't happen. But if they're events I don't want to, or can't, go to, why do I care if they aren't arranged? Just ask for the money: the people that have it will be very happy to give it, just as they have an national trust membership even though they only use it once a year and a Tate membership even though they live 100 miles away.

Hmm think the handing over of cold hard cash is abit of red herring. Many parents SAY they would do this but when it comes to it they never actually do!

Agree about futility of cake sales.

A big part of our PTA reason for existence is mainly fundraising but also community events. Family BBQ, summer fair etc. All invited huge turn out. Kids really enjoy the events, some are fun for adults too some not so much (Christmas fair shudder). I think it would be a shame for a primary not to have any of these things put on, even if only 1 or 2 events a year.

That said we are a school of 400 odd and its the same 12 ish that do everything. There are a hell of a lot of SAHMs of school age kids who are careful not to get involved. Not for me to judge but what the hell I do (in my head). Our chair a SAHM on career break from senior management job and she is fantastic extremely professional. The rest are working parents so we meet in the evenings. Make about £30k pa mostly from business sponsorship / grant applications.

Christ, just read your update. It's SO dodgy! The Chair realises she's in hot water and is trying to get you in to take over/shield her.

I think your idea to email and suggest involving the police is sound. Copy in everyone and their dog, too.

It wouldn't need to be an 'either/or' situation, I think? If you have a solid base of funding, you could continue to have all the normal events but in a slightly more relaxed way. ( Multiple income streams would give people more confidence and relieve pressure on main players.)

When I was a member of the PTA I certainly didn't do it for the social aspect. I didn't want to do it at all but they were struggling for helpers and I felt that I couldn't be another "someone else will do it" er.

Having said that I eventually gave it up because I couldn't stand the politics of it all. I just wanted to help.

I would recommend never taking cash expenses out of fair takes - bank all the money and then pay the expenses (with receipts) separately.

I agree with this - quite apart from being best practice, it also makes the sums much easier!!

What you're essentially doing is paying, in time, money and energy the costs of a small group of (usually) mothers having a get together and holding events they want to do.

I know what you're getting at, but events take such a lot of organising that it's hardly surprising the organisers will fall back on events they know will attract custom. A chair friend organised a visiting circus at her school and they very nearly lost money on it because they misjudged how popular it would be. Never again, she says. Stick to the disco and the summer fair.

Our PTA has two aims: obviously to raise money for the school, but also to support the school as part of its wider community (families, locality). We have fundraisers that raise nearly nothing, although they are not effectively loss-making like the cited lemon drizzle cakes: they foster an enormous amount of goodwill so that the next time we ask for cold hard cash it feels like a nice ask. For example, we have a second-hand uniform sale which might raise only £20 a time; on Sports Day we'll be selling hot drinks and bottled water and might clear another £50 or so.

We're pretty good at pricing cakes, as we've taught everyone to look at it as "give money, take cake" rather than "buy cake". Tomorrow I'll be contributing about £2 of toffee rice crispie cake which will be "sold" for 50p a go, so a total of probably £10.

cozietoesie is right, it's how a community comprehensive I'm a Governor of works - parents are asked to contribute cash by regular payment or one-off, and the PFA holds events (often well-attended and profitable) for those that want to get more involved. Parents can choose either method, both or not to contribute.

Personally, I'd rather give a tenner than bake a cake to be sold at a loss.

Also, the PTA could revise its constitution so that office bearers can only serve for a set period of time - say 2 or 3 years (the committee I am pet of has this type of condition).

Primary mine went to a while ago asked for a contribution of £15 per family per academic year for school fund. There was still a PTA but it tended to organise social events rather than fundraising iyswim.

Worked for us.

That whole situation sounds incredibly dodgy. I think in your shoes that I would report to the Police, Action Fraud, fraud department of the bank and would ensure my Arse was completely covered!

Our PTA runs events that are blatant fundraisers, and others that are aimed to entertain the children while engaging with the community.

We run a second-hand uniform sale, refreshments at sports day, fathers day and mothers day sales, family board-games evenings and a few others that are more for the benefit of the children rather than raising money. We run a 100 Club for easy donating.

We also invite parents to donate if they'd prefer to 'give' that way - none do. Many people give the same arguments as have been mentioned above - cake sales cost vs benefit, time-poor etc. But even though we offer a range of methods to donate, we still get a big fat £0.

Agree with those who've said the chances of the Treasurer having paid "PTA insurance" subs are less than zero

However, IME of community matters, most of these policies disallow claims if any negligence or fraud have been involved ... and this appears to have negligence/fraud written all over it

Would it be at all possible to have in the constitution that those who audit the accounts are not the same person as the treasurer? And at least two or three people have access to the bank account, signatories preferably? I wouldn't mind a non parent being in the PTA especially doing a role noone else wants to do but there have to be safeguards in place

IF the PTA has insurance cover through PTA UK, then there is cover for the fraudulent activities of a treasurer (fidelity cover). The OP should be able to check whether her PTA is a member or not by giving them a call - although, if she has resigned it may be better to get someone else (concerned mum?) to do it.

The PTA would have to have an insurance policy in place, for public liability cover - I would definitely be checking that before the summer fete took place!

The school should actually require that in their Conditions of Let, Goudy. (If the fete is to be held on school premises which they usually are.) I wouldn't like to guess what the implications might be if there were an accident at the event.

That's very interesting to know, Goudy - though I admit I'm surprised

Generally insurers will look for any reason to avoid paying out, so I really didn't expect them to cover outright dishonesty ...

I suspect that that would assume all other things were in order - or might have seemed so to a reasonable person, Puzzled. (In other words, if you had a straight fraud.) You're right in that insurance companies tend to grind very small when it comes to larger claims.

In Scotland we are a member of and have insurance through a similar umbrella body and I had a conversation with them re internet banking. And with dual signatories you are covered and it is a big reason for them paying out... it is common - through desperation but also through greed.
I'll say again because someone mentioned the treasurer faking the chair's signature - banks do not routinely check signatures on cheques - they do it randomly or if they think it is unusual (large amount) so for any one involved with something like this you really need to see bank statements too -some proof of what is happening in your accounts...don't think cos you need two signatures it is safe!

(Although if the signature is obviously fake the bank would be responsible)

Phone the Police on the non-emergency number. No-one who is "guilty" would do that so if there is any fallout you will have covered your own back. Its appalling that it has to come to this but guilty people dont usually want to go quietly and would take others with them as collateral damage.

I also suspect that 'irregularities' are sometimes just down to lack of time/diligence, unlucky.

I had a close acquaintance who ran her school's tuck shop and she literally had bags of money lying around the place - in cupboards, kitchen drawers etc. She was honest as the day - and the tuck shop probably actually came out ahead at the end of it, what with her buying supplies from her own funds. She was disorganised, though.

Puzzled I was quite surprised about the fidelity cover too - it suggests that fraud isn't unusual in PTAs. The PTA.org cover is for up to £5k of losses, but with an excess of up to £1k and limited to fraudulent activities within the last 18 months. It does have to be reported to the police.

Cozie insurance cover would be required for the let, but would the lettings department have checked that it was in place when the booking was made?