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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be the only person concerned that the PTA treasurer seems to have gone missing....

583 replies

PTAmissing · 16/05/2016 07:06

With all the PTA money?

She's been treasurer for years, no children at the school anymore.

She usually attends roughly 1 of every 4 meetings. She hasn't been to one for 6 months. She won't answer the phone or the door, doesn't reply to emails or texts. Chair went to her house and she didn't answer the door although it looked like she was in. We have no access to the money or accounts and the school is lending us money to get back off her at some indeterminate time in the future.

We have the school fate soon and she has all the info on stalls etc not to mention the money we need to buy things! She owes one of the parents about £50 for things they bought from their company for the PTA xmas fate.

Nobody else seems concerned! I really got angry about it at the last meeting and said this is ridiculous, we have no idea how much is in the account, we can't get hold of her, we have no working float. Apparently she has family drama at the moment and thats why she's unavailable but she still wants to be treasurer. I raised the possibility that there could be something dodgy going on and got shut down by the chair who said its not possible as there are two signatories on the account (because she couldn't just forge a signature???)

AIBU to think they should be taking this a bit more seriously given there is over £7000 (at the last count) of money that has been donated by the parents fgs, not to just sit in an account that nobody can get into?!

OP posts:
Original poster
PTAmissing · 19/05/2016 14:39

I haven't sent the letter yet, chair should be up the school this afternoon. Will speak to her one last time.

I've no idea if head can access the account. Concerned mum was going to ask her and also ask if she had seen a bank statement but I didn't hear back.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 19/05/2016 14:58

chair should be up the school this afternoon. Will speak to her one last time

I wonder if it would be worth taking your resignation letter with you? At least that way, if the answer isn't good enough, you could hand it straight over and put this behind you

I'd hope the obvious "urgency" that would show might persuade them that this really does need dealing with, but from the sound of things I wouldn't bank too much on it Hmm

MrsJoeyMaynard · 19/05/2016 15:06

The whole situation is ridiculous.

Even if the reasons for the treasurers absence are completely innocent, the PTA still needs an acting treasurer who can fulfill the treasurer role until the absent treasurer can step up again. It must be a lot harder for the PTA to do anything without access to the funds.

It must be immensely frustrating that the PTA chair seems to be sticking her head in the sand rather than dealing with the situation.

I think I would copy your resignation letter to the head teacher and all the PTA committee so that they're all aware of your concerns.

Clayhead · 19/05/2016 15:43

I think the committee has due process to follow and it sounds like they are making a start.

But a start at such a slow pace.

Baconyum · 19/05/2016 16:06

I don't think it's ott at all this makes it more concerning (what possible reason is there not to act that isn't dodgy?)

Op by saying head etc wouldn't be complicit in any fraud you're doing the same as those who've known the treasurer for years and are all 'she'd never do that'.

In your position I'd

Resign ensuring all PTA members received the letter and the letter clearly outlined why

Copy letter to governors and local authority (they do have an interest because school funds are being diverted)

Contact police for advice, as several of us have said fraud in this kind of small organisation is more common than people realise (my auditor friend would back me up)

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 19/05/2016 17:05

I'd honestly stay in post and insist on EGM. You've much power as a committee member than an ordinary parent. I honest don't think involving the Police is premature under the circumstances. They will insist treasurer shows them relevant documents etc to check for fraud. I'd say you are concerned others who don't want to act are turning a blind eye or worse complicit.

Original poster
PTAmissing · 19/05/2016 17:41

Chair not at school, concerned mum was.

Me: has anyone heard from treasurer yet?

Her: no. Think we are going to her house tomorrow evening to see if we can get hold of her

Me: and if you can't?

Her: well we're going to get another signitory put on the account so we can get the money for the fate

At this point I said again how ridiculous the situation is, fate is in 5 weeks, what if we couldn't get one on the account by then?!

No answers really, just hoping they can get her tomorrow

Haven't resigned yet, will wait and see what happens tomorrow I think

OP posts:
PotteringAlong · 19/05/2016 17:49

I'd go to the police tonight. I would say there is enough suspicion of fraud now for you to report it.

TheLittleFoxes · 19/05/2016 18:03

You could call Action Fraud on 0300 123 2040 for advice. They also have an online adviser via web chat from 9am to 6pm.

Baconyum · 19/05/2016 18:29

Excellent post by little foxes (I'd forgotten about action fraud Blush)

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 19/05/2016 19:29

The think is if they are in cahoots ( or even if they aren't) they have contacted treasurer to say you are kicking up a fuss about this. She tipped off and potentially hide any evidence of wrongdoing. You would not be wasting the Police's to report your concerns. They can then investigate. And you are protected if there is any wrongdoing.

OVienna · 19/05/2016 19:41

Agree fraud on PTAs is not out of the ordinary.....

AddToBasket · 19/05/2016 20:35

It's up to you if you resign, of course, but don't feel pushed into it because you are worried about covering your own backside. As long as you continue to document your concerns you are going to be ok.

It sounds as the the school genuinely need you on that PTA!

Original poster
PTAmissing · 19/05/2016 20:46

I really am loathe to call the police. If (big if) she really does have some home stuff on then the old bill banging on her door would be awful.

Tomorrow is crunch time. Next PTA meeting is next week. I'm holding back my resignation until then and adding the whole issue onto AOB.

OP posts:
Optimist1 · 19/05/2016 20:56

That's a good move, OP. Hopefully by this time next week everything'll be back on an even keel and you won't have had to resign. Don't forget to update us after the meeting!

ingeniousidiot · 19/05/2016 21:19

I took over as PTA treasurer from someone who had made a mess and made us think that we had about £5000 in the bank, not £500. She did a financial report as such, but didn't understand the difference between income and profit, and for some events the income figure was quoted as profit, and expenditure wasn't even mentioned. She also spent without consulting the committee - a couple of hundred here and there for things that were 'a good deal'. I think it was through stupidity rather than malice - although some things were purchased from a relatives business .......

It took a bloody age to sort out and she was very unco-operative - never again!

Baconyum · 19/05/2016 21:27

Ghoulwith I've had some interesting conversations with my fraud auditor friend. They never hide it as well as they think they have.

In addition she's an older lady. Very petite and softly spoken and therefore often underestimated. Especially as they think she won't have a grasp on new IT (she was on on the ground floor DEVELOPING computerised account systems she knows EXACTLY how they workGrin)

Brightredpencil · 19/05/2016 22:07

This is beyond dodgy. If people had been phoning/emailing me etc then no matter what was happening at some point I would have had 2 minutes to reply with "sorry this is a bad time give me a couple of weeks to catch up/please come and get the files etc".
Good luck OP. I'd be distancing myself as much as possible!

AugustaFinkNottle · 19/05/2016 22:12

Does it have to be AOB? Can you ask for it to be a specific agenda item, preferably near the beginning of the agenda? People are usually more energetic about discussing things at the beginning of a meeting. Plus if it's on the agenda it might just prompt the chair to make more effort to contact the treasurer so that she'll have something more solid to report than "I'll try to get in touch with her again".

JustWantToBeDorisAgain · 19/05/2016 22:36

Lamb shank

The committee will only have the bank statement and not the actual accounts ( theses should tally but it's not certain) this woman has not been present for months if she can't manage with whatever personal issues she has ( and I appreciate she may have some significant stuff happening) it would take minutes to put her hands up resign and handover to someone else.

If you're ever tempted back to the pta op pta uk are a great source of advice fir situations like this.

JustWantToBeDorisAgain · 19/05/2016 22:40

Sorry thought I'd got to the end !

kali110 · 19/05/2016 22:56

Don't blame you for wanting to resign op, what a joke!

cozietoesie · 19/05/2016 23:01

In general, people only want to 'hand things over', if they're in halfway reasonable shape - to hand over shambolic stuff is intensely embarrassing. If someone had got themselves into a fankle, they might be far more likely to dodge than to face up to things and hand over the reins.

unlucky83 · 19/05/2016 23:05

I'm a PTA treasurer and have been for years. And I am a treasurer/equivalent for 3 other groups. One of them I shouldn't do any more but not managed to find a replacement -and it is really simple, take is less than £800 per year and it takes maybe an hour a year so I just keep doing it.
Of the four I do three are registered charities (in Scotland) and we have to send a report/our verified accounts to the regulator.
Accounts for things like this (unless there are concerns) need to be verified not audited - and can often be done by anyone with some kind of financial knowledge - so is usually free.
There are volunteer organisations that will check accounts for a small fee. (We pay for the big one (£50k+) to be done by a body like this - it costs £50 we were paying an accountant £400)
Our PTA isn't a registered charity - I still get someone to sign them off and have just found someone new, to give the previous person a break and also because we could be in cahoots...
The biggest problem I find is that I am trusted...and no-one else wants the hassle so they leave you to it.

I have given up taking in bank statements to show at meetings - as they don't really want to look them. I give a financial report but I am sure most of the time they aren't listening. I say the accounts for the PTA get signed off but for the last 2 AGMs I didn't get them back in time so they weren't signed...they are now but I could have said I've given them to X and not had them back yet - when I hadn't....
Two signatories is no guarantee! You don't even need to 'fake' a signature - just have two different looking ones - someone in the bank told me they don't check the signatures on every cheque - just randomly or unusual ones say for large amounts (we were changing signatories and needed to write a cheque and I asked which ones I should use) .

We have internet banking - I can make payments as one signatory - but we should have someone else (chair) who can view the online account at any time - which in many ways is more secure that showing a bank statement as you could empty the account the day after...
Except something went wrong (which made me realise no-one had actually been checking up on me!) has been a nightmare and currently no-one has access although we should finally have it sorted now (after 2 years)...I have been emailing the odd screen shot of the accounts - but I know for at least one group they didn't look at it as they asked me how much was in the account a few days later!
I think your situation does sound dodgy - but it could be innocent - in that the treasurer has just got in a bit of a mess and it isn't a priority for them any more and they are embarrassed. But you are right to be concerned and to ask questions and want to get it investigated. You do need to have checks in place - treasurers do embezzle ... it is common. But they also mess up...
One of the ones I do when I took over was in a mess - previous treasurer had just lost interest and had less time. They got the accounts signed off - but the difference in the amount in the bank was different to the accounts...Hmm I ended up going through the whole year again and reverified to get them good enough to go to the regulator. And I found things that didn't add up - turns out when she hadn't made it to the cash machine she had borrowed cash and lost track and then put more back in than she had taken...
I got the final accounts together for a group that had closed - they were a mess - they had employed someone to do their accounts but they had not been on top of them - partly why they had run out of money. They had sacked them a few months earlier. I couldn't get the accounts to add up - I am sure it wasn't fraud just poor record keeping...

Sunnymeg · 20/05/2016 10:06

It is all well and good for the chair to say that they will add signatories and get the float for the fete out of the bank..... But if this can't be done within timescales then either the fete gets cancelled and parents will want to know why or someone is going to have to lend the PTA the float money to run it. Either way this is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs . If as you say the treasurer has a financial background, she is all too aware of the repercussions of her behaviour. PTA insurances have helplines so the chair could always contact them for advice on how to approach the situation. In your position I'd be looking for a vote of no confidence in the chair but fully appreciate that you won't want to do that

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