to object to this reading book

[Itscurtainsforyou]

My 5 year old brought home a reading book about "man on the moon". It talked about the 12 MEN (not people, men) who have walked on the moon. I could let that one go as it was talking about past events and they were all men.

However at the end of the book it says something along the lines of "maybe men will walk on the moon again" - IABU to think that they should have used non-gender words (such as "people") or worded it differently? I felt the need to explain to my 5 year old that in the 1960-70s most astronauts were men and of course these days women were equally likely to walk on the moon/go into space.

Maybe I'm just easily wound up but this just seems like subtle sexism and there should be no place for it in schools.

Totally agree. DS had that book too and the final page really gave me a jolt. In lots of books, I do my own equal opps or modernisation as I read it, but the point of these books is the kid reads it themselves.

It felt like we were in the seventies again. And bullshit is it lazy feminism to object to 'man' when it clearly isn't used gender neutrally.

'man gives birth after nine months' makes no intellible sense.

Likewise have you ever heard of "man breastfeeds child"? No, because when we mean something specific to women we say women and it conjures up the image of a woman.

Um. Of course I haven't because it's gender specific. We would say 'man has a penis' or 'Man used to live in mud huts'. Would anyone reply to the second sentence with "and where did the women sleep?"

"Men breastfeed children" would be incorrect. People have already pointed out the difference between 'men' and 'man' and 'Man'

If the term "man" were as gender neutral as you think we would have no problem saying "breastfeeding man" but we don't say it because we know it would create a confusing image.

We could say "Man breastfeed their child[ren for approximately 12 months]" and that would be a good approximation of being syntactically similar and I don't think creates any confusion.

Your remark about nurses also demonstrates the point. I don't think I've ever heard man being used in the way you describe to talk about nurses.

What point and how? The only point I see it demonstrating is the stereotypical sex of someone who does a particular job.

Actually two of them aren't... That's kind of the point

Farming and construction aren't traditionally male jobs? Are you confusing my meaning of 'traditional' with pre-historic?

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JinRamen

It's about on par with the book dd brought home recently where the child wishes the goldfish is their mum because all the mum does is moan, with examples like don't throw that rock and brush your teeth. You know, parenting? Which is not moaning and dad is equally decodable as mum. Charming!

Is your issue that the book didn't use the term 'parenting'? Children struggle with lexical derivation eg. nurse, parent, bath.

Is your issue that it was a mother and not a father?

If the second then I suppose you'd have been equally indignant if the story was about a dad? Bet you wouldn't.

No one, male or female has ever walked on the moon.

The Russians abandoned their moon landing programme because they realised the radiation would kill the astronauts but the USA were somehow unaffected by it.

Does anyone seriously think those foil and tin cans flew in space.

Time to drop the BS for good. But I guess the USA wont ever admit it

edit:

The only point I see it demonstrating is the stereotypical sex of someone who does a particular job.

Which is an issue and one well illustrated by that video up there.

sothathappened we'll have to refile that one in the fiction section.

Brilliant video.

But, I think the book is there to support the development of phonics. Once the phonics have been mastered then that opens up a whole world of literature and endless possibilities for philosophical thought and debate. The OP has started that by discussing the book and its meaning with her child. I think that's fantastic.

Throughout life we will come across good books, inspirational books, bad books, funny books. Education provides the tools for us to assess them, analyse them, enjoy them, write them and change the way others think.

There's a place for everything in my opinion and teaching a child to challenge is the first step to developing an intellect. I think it sounds like the OP and her child had a fabulous experience - I see the book as sowing the seeds of intellectual challenge.

the ORT was one of the reasons I couldn't face a third child; twice was more than enough

Loads of parents won't discuss it though, or even notice it. And loads of kids will have gender stereotypes further ingrained and 'made official' because it was in a school book.

I find this website is a useful source of different books. Here's a space one for the right age group:
www.amightygirl.com/i-want-to-be-an-astronaut-sesame-street

"manwhohasitall ‏@manwhohasitall
"I'm not hung up on the term 'spacewoman' because I know it refers to both women & men." Tim, age 44, male spacewoman"

Bertrand love it.

Love the video clip.

So many school reading books are crap from a feminist perspective. Oh look, daddy cant cook and he made a mess. Silly daddy, now mummy has to clean it up.

If i complained about every one that bugged me, it would be about once a week! And the school already judges me as that weirdo who wants her children taken out of prayer time and lets her boys have long hair. Sadly i dont know the answer to it.

here actually my point was that it wasn't moaning and should have been at the least mum and dad. Yes I would have thought it equally bad if it was just dad. It is reinforcing the idea that parents are 'moaning' when actually they are doing their job in keeping you safe and acceptable behaviours.

If i complained about every one that bugged me, it would be about once a week! And the school already judges me as that weirdo who wants her children taken out of prayer time and lets her boys have long hair. Sadly i dont know the answer to it.

Cut their hair and explain that some people are religious, some aren't and it's their choice.

Easy answers! You're welcome.

The 12 people who have been to the moon were men. It is a fact. Revisionist history is far more dangerous than what you perceive as sexism. You lied to your child there were no female astronauts until 1983. You could have told her about the female cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova who flew in 1963.

At the time women did not serve in the front line US military and the NASA astronauts were all airforce or navy pilots.

Haha, cheers, here!

We could say "Man breastfeed their child[ren for approximately 12 months]" and that would be a good approximation of being syntactically similar and I don't think creates any confusion.

It creates lots of confusion and just that sentence is hurting my head!

For a start you're mixing a singular noun (man) with a plural conjugation (breastfeed) and a plural possessive (their)..

Which with the rest of your post demonstrates the logical twists and turns one has to go through in order to prove that "Man" is gender neutral.

OP, YANBU. What's wrong with saying 'humans' if 'people' is too phonetically confusing?

And I can't agree that using the etymologically derived word 'man' for 'mankind' is as neutral as other posters have suggested - it was derived many less enlightened years ago and to my mind is implicitly sexist.

P.S. That video made me blub, probably from my current pregnancy hormones, but also because my 2 year old DC told me yesterday that 'Spiderman is for boys, notherwise girls', and I have no idea where that came from as we're very tuned in to gendered expectations, but they're so insidious that there's really no escape.

Potatoes, you need to learn the difference between denotation and connotation, if you're going to give us these rather reductive and basic homilies on etymology.

OP, YANBU.

I agree with you that we should be encouraging children to think that men and women could walk on the moon again.

My thinking is, in a reading book, men is more easily decodeable than women. I'm assuming he's youngish and it's an ort type scheme book?

""I don't mind being called a superheroine because I know it covers both female & male characters," Thor, Superheroine #NationalSuperheroDay"

What people forget is that small changes in books make a huge difference in the long run. I have changed words too while reading a book to my child. why shouldn't I if I disagree with the wording. You should be able to go through all the books your young kids read. Making sure you know what they are reading. This might change for me once the volume gets bigger but for now I can dictate what they hear from me.