To Wonder How The Government Plans to close the "iPlayer loophole"

[wasonthelist]

First of all, I have no problem and no objection to this.

But how will they do it?

Just pass a law and expect everyone to behave?

Or something else - can't see how it's going to work practically.

The BBC would make so much money if it allowed overseas subscribers to pay for their service.

But then they would need worldwide rights for content they show, which would be insanely expensive.

I suspect the EU thing I posted upthread is going to be hard enough: at the moment, there are exemptions in the single market which allows, say, the Premiership to sell separate rights to UK and French broadcasters.

drdre I don't think so. I suspect they'll be pushing their box sets onto people even more. There are already some devices where downloading is not allowed anymore and the number is increasing.

Ricardian sorry, you're quite right; I thought you were suggesting general opening to foreign viewers which (as you point out) is unlikely for lots of reasons. I hadn't realised they had suggested licence fee payers being able to watch abroad.

I hadn't realised they had suggested licence fee payers being able to watch abroad.

I hadn't realised until I checked the white paper, so thanks for directing me there .

But as I said, the same basic problem would arise when people used tablets on campsites, which is strictly analogous to using a portable TV powered by battery while away from the licensed address.

There's a whole stack of "is it a premises license or is it a person license" issues to deal with, which weren't important when TVs had valves in them, but now are. It's not possible (and arguably, not legal unless you are the state) to reliably link IP numbers to locations in real time, and in any event, it's hard to imagine that they'll try to argue you can only use iPlayer at the licensed address. So it's all going to be quite messy. Can my children use my license to watch iPlayer on their laptop using their university's network? Discuss. Do not attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once.

Surely a fee on every new PC, tablet or phone?

Surely a fee on every new PC, tablet or phone?

If we're trying to make the UK a good place for high-tech jobs, a tax on modern technology would hardly be the way to do it.

The last time I spoke to tv licensing I was told if I had a mobile phone I must pay for a license because mobiles could pick up live tv and it had nothing to do with if I watched it or not. Nor as it turned out did it have anything to do with the make of my mobile which did not have the ability to have the Internet on it, yet they still said I could be set to court for having the ability to watch tv and not paying, I was hounded for months.

I still get bloody letters from them about owning a phone meaning I'm watching live tv!! There's plenty of mobiles that don't have Internet on.

I could purchase on DVD the programmes I watch via iplayer for a lot less than the license which is what I will do.

The BBC will probably have a lot more money rolling in soon then. Both from people who like to watch BBC programmes on catchup buying licences and also from the price freeze being lifted on the licence fee.

Hopefully it will make it possible for them to be a bit more generous with the Iplayer content. At the moment most programmes broadcast longer ago than 30 days can no longer be watched for free, and they push you to the BBC Store, where each programme costs at least £1.89, even if it''s only 30 minutes long. They do this even if the series is still being broadcast. I have had to buy a few episodes of things to catchup, and resent it a bit, on top of the licence fee.

By contrast, All4 (Channel 4's equivalent), has series going back years, all available free.

I would prefer them to start taking a bit of advertising really, and start phasing out the licence fee. If they had commercial breaks we would have time to visit the loo/put the kettle on while watching a show (the main disadvantage of watching the BBC is that you can't!)

And then maybe added to that and optional some kind of subscription service which allowed access to ALL their content.

Allowing advertising on the BBC goes against its core ethos so I don't think that's an option Teradel.

If the BBC did go down the route of everyone having a "code" to watch iplayer, I reckon it would be broken/hack etc. within hours of it going live.

Just pass a law and expect everyone to behave?

Isn't that the way most laws work with a suitable punishment if you're caught not 'behaving'?

It's the way TV licences work and the reason that, when at uni, we only got a licence the day after the man came knocking.

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*Becca19962014

The logical way (so it won't be this then!) is to request a license number to access iplayer.

Of course and seems like the obvious solution.

I don't have a license, because it explicitly states for live programmes only.*

Correct and fair.

If they make it license only I'd ... not bother at all and go elsewhere online.

Illegal. Not judging you for it but illegal.

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Vagabond

The BBC would make so much money if it allowed overseas subscribers to pay for their service. I would certainly pay for it quite happily. I used to be able to access iPlayer via my VPN but that has been shut down. I miss the BBC and would pay a substantial fee to access it.

The VPN has stopped it? Make sure you're using one based in the UK, or at least its servers are based there.

There are numerous other methods and services (free and paid) for accessing 4oD, iPlayer etc. They're no more or less illegal than when you were using a VPN.

Becca19962014
The last time I spoke to tv licensing I was told if I had a mobile phone I must pay for a license because mobiles could pick up live tv and it had nothing to do with if I watched it or not. Nor as it turned out did it have anything to do with the make of my mobile which did not have the ability to have the Internet on it, yet they still said I could be set to court for having the ability to watch tv and not paying, I was hounded for months

You were misinformed. It's not the owning of a device, it's the using of it.

If you had a television but only ever used it for DVDs then you don't need a licence.

There used to be a European iplayer, I paid an annual fee for access (from Portugal). It didn't have the most current programmes on it, except eastenders and graham norton, but it did have lots of series, then they withdrew it with about a month's warning. I don't understand why, if they'd pushed it more they'd have had a lot of subscribers

I don't pay for a licence because I don't watch live tv but I do watch iplayer and listen to radio 4. I wouldn't mind paying for an online only subscription to access iplayer and iplayer radio but the monthly rate of the licence is too much. I pay £7 for Netflix and £6 for now tv, £12+ for iplayer isn't proportionate to other services. I don't think the online access should be charged at the same rate as the full bbc services.

Allowing advertising on the BBC goes against its core ethos

Except for the excessive advertising they do all the time for their own products and services.

herecomethepitatos I meant online for other content/ programmes not BBC content (I can get DVDs of few things I download on iplayer for much less than a license and usually do anyway as many series are incomplete on there) nothing illegal. Plenty of stuff out there to watch legally on the net for far less money - some packages even include iplayer in the fee - though I assume that'll be changing now (though that also generates money for them).

They said it was if a device received signal and ability to watch, which it didn't any way, I needed a licence.

The only thing the inspectors accept is a no signal on TVs they find. If there's signal you will face a fine, as they assume you do, and how do you prove you dint with a fully functional tv? It's ability to watch they go on that's why if inspectors come round and are let in they get you to flick through all channels of live TVs (as its all live content not just BBC).

costa they removed it after a public out cry that 60m people used it free abroad, it's on the BBC site somewhere.

Costa link here

I know - it says in the article the international service has closed - makes no sense why they would do that

Ricardian - you can't currently watch iPlayer abroad, and I think they've said that this will remain the case

Ah you can, really easily

Re advertising - I accept that the BBC do advertise their own programmes BT they do this in between programmes not during. I find the break in the tension or involvement in a programme for commercial breaks really lessens my enjoyment - even if I have it on the PVR and fast forward through the ads.

BT = but

Some European countries have a system where everyone pays a set sum regardless of ownership and use of TVs, radios etc. I think some roll it into their version of the council tax. If we did this, then use of iplayer would just be included.

It's either going to be a completely overrestrictive pain in the arse, or it's going to be unenforceable. If it's too arkward to do everyone is just going to illegally stream stuff anyway!

The evidence is that that isn't the case. Illegal streaming/downloading of music has hugely reduced because Spotify and similar services are legal, cheap and good, and because iTunes Store (and similar) have stopped putting ludicrous DRM on everything. It turns out that people are willing to pay if they feel the payment is reasonable, the stuff they buy is at least as good as the stuff they obtain by other routes and the payment mechanism is frictionless. So given the choice between easy to get music downloads which work on every device, and jumping through endless hoops to buy copies of music that only work on alternate Wednesdays, people go with free, and sod the legality. But with an easy payment mechanism that doesn't hobble you, people pay.

Springsteen is selling recordings of each night's concerts, about a month in arrears. They're lightly remixed desk outputs, so sound better than audience bootlegs, and are available in every format from MP3 up to exotica that outperforms the original recording, without any copy protection. It appears people are willing to pay for that: they're better quality, aren't complex to play and are reasonably priced.

Becca19962014

some packages even include iplayer in the fee - though I assume that'll be changing now (though that also generates money for them)

Not legally they don't. I'm still not judging and am streaming TV as we speak. It isn't legal though.

They said it was if a device received signal and ability to watch, which it didn't any way, I needed a licence.The only thing the inspectors accept is a no signal on TVs they find. If there's signal you will face a fine, as they assume you do, and how do you prove you dint with a fully functional tv?

They have ordinarily have no right of access. The onus is on them to prove (and they can using technology) you are receiving TV and not just capable of it.