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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU- lost cheque from 6 years ago

133 replies

gabsdot · 12/05/2016 12:33

I used to run a preschool and 6 years ago I refunded some fees to a parent. Their child started, they paid the full month's fees and then the child wouldn't settle and they withdrew him after two days. I sent them a cheque to refund the months fees minus 2 days.
I just had a phone call from the dad saying that he lost the cheque and apparently has just found it and can I reissue it.

I basically told him no. I closed my school 2 years ago, all my records are in the attic and my business bank account is closed.
AIBU.

OP posts:
fragsjones · 15/05/2016 21:32

Regarding cheque dates:
In general banks only cash them under 6 months of the date.
I had one refused from a shares dividend which actually had a 12 months cash by date which at first was refused by the cashier but when queried with a manager they did bank it for me as it was over 6 months of the date but under 12 months...had I not banked the cheque in the 12 months of issue I would've had to send it back to the company who issued to be reissued to me but I'd have to pay an admin fee that varied depending on the value of the cheque involved.
So, if you've had a bank refuse a cheque because you haven't banked it within 6 months go back to the issuer to see if you can have it reissued/pay the admin fee to get this done.

Regarding the OP: 6 years is taking the piss and YANBU. I would be really curious and have to go in the attic to go through all the paper work and confirm the guy is a chancing tosser though ;)

Pipbin · 15/05/2016 21:45

I think YANBU OP.

If I returned something to a shop and they gave me a credit note which I failed to spend then that would be my problem, surely.

BananaThePoet · 15/05/2016 22:06

YANBU.
The school you ran owed him the money 6 years ago.
The school no longer exists.
So in my opinion morally he's out of luck.
I know legally he is.
I've lost cheques in the past and then found them days after the time limit expired (small ones) and never once considered the person who wrote the cheque owed me anything.
I think the length of time left between writing the cheque and the date by when it counts as expired was decided as it was as if the person who had the cheque written to them had decided to forgo the payment and after that length of time it was unreasonable to expect the cheque writer to still have the money available to pay it to them. I mean otherwise people would have to keep small amounts on the off-chance and then have to spend loads of money seeking people out to pay them etc.
That's why there are people who make a living from searching out long-lost heirs and then getting a percentage for reuniting them with their inheritance. Because if it goes too long then the heirs lose the money. Same as with Lottery wins. If you don't claim within a timescale you lose it.

BananaThePoet · 15/05/2016 22:12

It is not because the cheque is not valid that the money isn't owed to him it is because of the length of time he left before asking you to pay the money to him. I think it comes under the heading of statute barred - I think that says if a debt goes six years without the person owed mentioning it or contacting the person who owes the money then they can't take legal action to get it paid. Is it more than six years since he mentioned the debt to you? Though to be honest the cost of chasing it up would probably be more than the money owed so most people probably wouldn't bother and would chalk it up to experience.

OutToGetYou · 16/05/2016 00:30

Cheques actually don't have a "validity" period.

There are several things here:

  1. banks won't take cheques after 6m. This isn't because they are not 'valid' it is simply bank policy mainly in case the debt has been paid some other way
  2. a debt is a debt forever. The op agreed to pay the money, and maybe the contract she had with the customer even covered this, so if he has not had the money he is still owed it.
  3. but he cannot legally pursue it after a gap of six years. He can continue to pursue it after it is due for as long as he wants, but if there is a gap and that reaches six years then the debt is statute barred. This would seem to apply here.
  4. the op's books can't have balanced. So I reckon her later supposition that he lost it at the time and she paid him some other way then is possibly correct, or there would have been a problem with her accounts. It would have shown up and such a large amount could not be put down to a rounding error or petty cash
  5. him finding a/the cheque is not evidence that the debt is still owed (hence the policy the banks have) so he would need to go further to prove it. But even if he does, assuming the gap is at least 6 full years, he cannot legally pursue it. Whether the Op feels a moral responsibility is up to her.
Alicadabra · 16/05/2016 10:05

Sounds very cheeky to me. If he hasn't missed it in 6 years, it doesn't sound like the money was that significant. But circumstances do change and, as others have said, there's a chance (albeit a very small one) that the debt may still exist.

If he persists, I'd offer to investigate but tell him that he'll need to pay (up front, naturally) for the time you spend checking, regardless of whether or not the money is still owing. If he's trying it on, that might well put him off. If he's not, then at least you'd be paid for the hassle of having to search through your records.

iMogster · 16/05/2016 13:27

Good idea to charge an upfront admin fee for looking into it.

fargone · 16/05/2016 13:31

I don't see how you could reissue the refund if the business is closed! YANBU.

HormonalHeap · 16/05/2016 13:36

I just find the whole thing so odd. Who goes back 6 years ago to check their accounts anyway?

HormonalHeap · 16/05/2016 13:37

Sounds like a nasty piece of work. Even if your business is closed you can be sure he'll be asking for a personal cheque...

urkidding · 16/05/2016 13:54

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with some of the answers. Ask him for the cheque back to make sure he did not cash it in and then refund him.
You are not losing out financially, and you may want to be a good and generous-hearted person.
It is always a good idea in business to be as fair-minded and generous as you can be. It builds goodwill for the future!

LowDudgeon · 16/05/2016 14:09

urkidding he won't have cashed this one or he wouldn't still have it, but he may have requested & received & cashed a replacement at the time.

If OP's business books balanced, which seems likely, then he's just chancing his arm (I mean he may not remember receiving a replacement any more than OP remembers sending one so it's not necessarily fraudulent, just asking)

SooBee61 · 16/05/2016 14:16

This from moneysavingexpert.com:

A cheque is valid for as long as the debt between the two parties (i.e. issuer and payee) exists. In other words, cheques don't have an expiration date. However, it's common banking practice to reject a cheque that's more than six months old to protect the payer in case the payment has already been made another way.

Surely your accounts would have shown that it was never cashed? I believe you need to keep them for 7 years if you are/were a company.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 16/05/2016 14:24

Well, you told him business has closed so I'd just leave it now. There is an outside chance the debt is still owed if six years has not yet expired as you were a sole trader. But I'd expect the parent to set out his full case in writing and you can check your accounts at that stage. I bet you did reissue the cheque at the time otherwise your accounts wouldn't have balanced.

MrsArchchancellorRidcully · 16/05/2016 14:26

I agree with others. (I'm an accountant). If he hasn't had a refund, then the debt still exists. However, an uncashed cheque is not proof that a debt still exists. He either needs to provide further proof that the debt remains or needs to provide an upfront admin fee to pay for your time to investigate.
How much is it for? It can't be more than a few hundred pounds? I think he's chancing his arm and too bad for him that he didn't chase it at the time.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 16/05/2016 14:31

That's the position for Eng and Wales. Will be different elsewhere.

RubyFlint · 16/05/2016 14:31

Surely 6 years ago was when should have asked OP to cancel the 'lost' cheque and reissue a new one. Not now. No way. Cheeky git.

Adnerb95 · 16/05/2016 14:42

Boomboomscousin

Au contraire, I think you'll find the OP no longer owes this money. Her business - which was wound up some time ago - owed the money. This business no longer exists. You can't possibly expect OP to continue to have any liability for this and nor does she have to make sure cheques are presented. Small business owners haven't got the time to chase non-presentation of cheques

OP - YANBU by any stretch of the imagination!

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 16/05/2016 15:12

As a sole trader the debts of the OPs business are her personal debts even after it's no longer trading. So if there is a debt ( doubtful) it will be for OP to pay.

fryingtoday · 16/05/2016 16:11

Cheques are only valid in UK for 6 months anyway, hence he is asking you to re-issue. I have just paid someone who failed to invoice us in 2014 - but only because I wish to continue the relationship.
I would refuse an invoice from 6 years ago - company accounts are long since closed. In your case, the company no longer exists!
I would say that unfortunately as the company has now closed, you have no means of re-issuing a cheque.
He is chancing his arm - he will know if you do not issue another cheque there is nothing he can do.
Don't sweat it.

supersop60 · 16/05/2016 16:23

Sorry, haven't RTWT, but kust found this on Natwest website:
"if you have written a cheque to a third party and it still hasn’t debited your account 6 months later, you can choose to contact us to stop the cheque."

prettybird · 16/05/2016 16:29

If the OP is in Ireland (she mentions €) then as far as I can make out it has the same 6 year limitation on the chasing of a debt.

Cheshireblue · 16/05/2016 16:54

Cheques have to be presented to a bank within 6 months. However, in the UK a party has 6 years in which to issue court proceedings for financial damages (3 years for Persinsl injury). This case is not black and white - there can be an arguement the the OP had satisfied the debt by sending the cheque. The other person could argue that he never presented the cheque and the banking would confirm this.
Even if he was successful who would he enforce the judgement against? The company is no longer trading. I suppose it depends on how the company was formed etc.

228agreenend · 16/05/2016 16:55

Anyone else waiting for this thread to be reported 'as news' in the Daily Fail...?

Couchpotato3 · 16/05/2016 16:57

Too bad for him.
YANBU