To think this notion of 'economic infertility' is bullshit?

[JenniferYellowHat1980]

Here

Living and working in London is a lifestyle choice isn't it? There being actual homes and jobs outside the capital. Having experienced actual biological infertility it boils my piss a little, that's all.

Never heard the term. I feel sorry for people who have family ties in London and/or grew up there and can't afford London, but for others it's a lifestyle choice, yes.

I hadn't heard the phrase before, but think I can work it out from your OP. I agree - it's total rubbish. It's all about choices.
We absolutely loved living in central London in our 20s and would have loved to have stayed there with our family. However, we couldn't afford it so left when DC1 was 8 weeks old. If we wanted to stay we'd have had to have deleted or not had children. We had to make a choice.

The whole country is ridiculously London-centric

If you happen to be born/live/work in London then the cost of living shouldn't be so high that people feel they cannot afford to have children. No, it isn't the same as biological infertility, but it still isn't easy yo just up and move and find suitsble work elswhere. And people shouldn't have to in order to fulfil the basic human desire to have a baby.

Really? You don't think it's harder for poor people to have children? You think it's easy to be poor and move out of London? Leave the family that you might have responsibility for or might be the people who could look after your children While your at work, and where do people get the money to move most renters in London can afford a deposit to move.
That's not to say though it's comparable to physical infertility as you put it

I'm often surprised by the number of mnetters who assume everyone lives in London and seem completely oblivious of life outside. You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

I thought that when I read it earlier. I fully support the choice of anyone who decides that they don't want to compromise their lifestyle to have children - it's a totally valid reason. However, it's still a choice, and shouldn't be labelled as anything other.

I did think it was an insensitive term too.

Yes I feel the same flying

No, not all jobs can be fine outside London. Both DH and I work in a very London-centric industry. There are odd pockets around the country, also in pricey areas, with nowhere like the number of jobs or opportunities.
When I started in this industry I was 21 and wasn't giving future parenthood a second thought, plus it was 23 years ago when things weren't as bad as they are now.

Fine = done

Griphook, that's not the thrust of the article I linked at all. Poverty in any part of the U.K. can of course be a barrier to having children but I don't think anyone would define those circumstances as infertility.

I gave up on this article halfway through because it was such bollocks.

It's FINE if you choose not to have children. You don't need to justify your reasons for not having children. But to frame yourself as a victim of today's economic climate is bullshit.

And besides, when she talks about how she'd need to move somewhere cheaper and therefore leave her London based job, it was like she'd never heard of the concept of commuting from further afield, like tens of thousands of people who work in London.

She also said that TTC gets more difficult "in your thirties"

If you want to make it work, you can. If you don't: fine.

There is life outside the M25! Yoo hoo!! We're all the way up here in the barren wastes known as Scotland. We have jobs and houses and even electricity!! gasp

Seriously though, London is not the be all and end all. Yes salaries might be a wee bit higher, but so are house prices. I wouldn't like to be bringing kids up in London. Husband probably could earn more working in London but our work-life balance would be worse and salary isn't everything.

Jennifer
My apologies I didn't see the link, will have a look

It's a horrible, insensitive phrase.

But, not everyone living in London has the option of just moving if they can't afford the cost of living. People may have family ties, or work in jobs that require them to be based in London. Plus, what happens to a city when anyone not on a huge income (nurses, teachers, etc) is forced to move out?

It's all very well to say to people that they should up sticks and move to a cheaper part of the country: I did it, I moved to Scotland for what I thought was going to be a better quality of life. Five years later, I'm back in London because I became terribly depressed. I've swapped a five-bedroom house with land in the gorgeous countryside for a one-bedroom ex-council flat in zone 4. I'm still happier in London: it's not necessarily easy to pack your life up, put down roots, make new friends and transplant yourself, and it was that which resulted in my depression. That's not to say that people can't and don't do it, but if you've lived in London for a decade or more, it's your home, it's where your life is and your friends are. And I can completely see why it's upsetting to realise that, if you want a family, you have to give up the rest of your life and security as well.

Additionally, there are increasingly fewer areas which are genuinely affordable. I'd really like to live near my parents in the South West of England - except that South West house prices are on a par with London, but South West salaries are certainly not. Essentially, matching the drop you take in salary outside of London with house prices means moving pretty far North rather than just "out of London".

I don't think "economic infertility" as a phrase is any more "insulting" than somebody who says that they'd desperately love another baby but can't afford one. And I'm biologically infertile.

Yanbu. It is an insensitive term to use.

There is a massive difference between not wanting to move and not physically being able to have children.

I take the point about people having family ties to London and not feeling able to up sticks to somewhere cheaper. Of course there are poor and disadvantaged London natives who might question whether they can afford children.

My beef with Daisy Buchanan is I doubt she's poor (anymore) or disadvantaged, so it felt disingenuous to talk about her choice to not have children as being all about economics.

You couldn't pay me enough to live there I agree, but for people who grew up and have family in London, it's not much fun having to leave just to have kids.

It's an awful term. infertility is infertility. Not being able to afford to have children is not infertility and doesn't stop a lot of people anyway

You know a city is in trouble when people describe living there as a "lifestyle choice".

Or perhaps it just shows how fucked the whole country must be.

Living in London should be a choice much like living anywhere else.

Not a "lifestyle" choice with all its connotations of frivolity.

Disingenuous: yes, that's exactly how I feel about this article.

Comtesse, the moves you've made have been choices though, haven't they? Albeit influenced by the impact of them on your mental health. What the writer of the article seems to be suggesting is that this 'economic infertility' is being inflicted on her, as opposed to being a result of choices she makes.

I also appreciate that there are some jobs that can't be done outside London. But again there is always the choice to stay put; transfer skills into a different career or start afresh.

Plus, what happens to a city when anyone not on a huge income (nurses, teachers, etc) is forced to move out? I guess they would be replenished by the willing masses, early in their career, who choose to live and work in the capital.

I think what irks me most is that the writer seems to present herself as a victim of the economy rather than someone with the capacity to make autonomous choices.

Yup, utter tosh.

Comtesse reading that back I'm worried that it sounds dismissive and patronising. Sorry

I think for a variety of reasons it is harder for most people to settle down and have kids at an early age - eg twenties than it was say 40 years ago. Must be hard if you have grown up in any expensive area of the country and find you cannot as an independent adult afford to live there - but I do agree there are far bigger injustices in the world and many suffer far more hardship than something relatively trivial like not being able to buy a house in their preferred area or not being able start a family at 25 or whatever their preferred scenario is

I believe more of it driven by the fact many find it harder to meet the right partner at a younger age and then this complicates things - people live different lives now and some will come out of it well and others may not