DN talks to me like rubbish at what stage do I say enough?

[crankyblob]

18 year old DN has a very entitled attitude. If i say something she disagrees with she speaks to me like crap.

I am very close to my DSis and have helped her a lot over the years as she is a single parent. As a result I was always close to her children and there has never been an argument.

DN is my sisters second child and for the last few years she has been consistently rude to me. I have spoken to my sister about this who brushes it off. DN does not seem to do it to anyone else.

I am getting really upset about this and upset with my sister that she brushes it off.

DN was again really rude to me yesterday. I was chatting with my sister and DM in the kitchen and DSis was asking advice. I gave a very Brief response but suggested DSis try an approach she had already dismissed. (I was in no way saying she must do this) then I stood by and ate biscuits while my mother gave her advice which happened to agree somewhat with me. This advice was not life changing and had no bearing on her children. In fact I would have thought no more of it after the conversation ended.

I then went through to the living room and DN really went for me over the conversation. She told me that I should butt out of my DSis business and if I was round just to push her into doing something she clearly did not want to do then I should leave. DSis and DM were both taken aback but said nothing. Even when She stormed off they said nothing. I made my excuses and left. I haven't spoken to any of them since.

I feel really upset about it all. If it was a one off I would put it down to DN having a bad day but it happens often. I have asked my sister if I have done anything wrong and she always insists That I haven't.

It is DN's birthday next week and there will be a big family gathering as usual. I really do not feel like I want to go and I want to say something to my sister but it will cause an argument.

When Dn was 15 and doing it I took the approach of being the adult and taking the high road. Now i just feel like saying you know what? You are clearly an adult and I have had enough! The fallout would be huge!

how do I handle this?

I might be reading this wrong but I wonder about your assertion that you and your sister are 'close'. What's the dynamic? Is there buried guilt, competition or hostility there somewhere on one or both parts?

That's the only reason I can think of that your sister would tolerate your niece's rudeness to you: if she secretly agrees with it, or at least doesn't disagree.

I suspect that this 'close' relationship you describe actually has quite a few more bad-tempered or resentful notes, and that your niece has picked up on those. And she's articulating something your sister has hinted at in off-hand remarks to her daughter but not to your face.

I just remembered a weird episode from my own teens. My mum invited a Romanian expat to stay with us for a while - I can't remember why he didn't have anywhere to live but anyway she said he could stay in our spare room. My dad got fed up with it after a few weeks but because he's the world's most passive-aggressive person didn't say directly to my mum that he wanted this guy gone. Instead he made snide remarks about him in passing, that made it clear to anyone who knew my dad well that he was pissed off.

I picked up on it and started being really rude to this guy. I got told off for it by my mum, but I don't remember my dad ever saying much about it - after all I was just articulating more directly what he'd already said indirectly.

I wonder if something similar is going on in your sister's house: your niece is picking up on a subtext somewhere and expressing it directly to you, whereas (as you put it) others in the family would just 'bitch and stew' to one another.

To put it another way, I think your sister is more or less consciously really resentful of the Lady Bountiful role you have been playing in her life - even if she has also come to rely on it. She has dropped hints to your niece that have made this clear, and your niece is expressing that resentment directly, like I did with my dad and the Romanian.

If I were you I'd back right off being 'there for' your sister in quite such an intense way. It sounds as though it's provoking ambivalent feelings to say the least.

This makes so much sense to me!

Thinking about it, in the past my dsis has asked advice which I have given and then I have become the subject of bitching because I said something she didn't like!

I think OTheHugeManatee makes a good point re possible resentment. It's something I've observed in my own family when one adult is quite dependent on another financially or practically. With even the best of intentions boundaries can become blurred and frustrations and resentment build. It really does sound like DN is airing views that may not just be held by her.

This situation is hurtful Op but sounds like your DSIS family is largely reared so maybe it's time for you to be less involved/available?

Maybe next time sis wants advice, leave her to figure it out herself. She uses you as a sounding board, but does she follow your advice? Next time I'd say, "you do what you think is best" and don't let her draw you in.
No way I'd be going to the party. Leave her to it. At 18 she needs to be polite even if she doesn't agree with you, she doesn't get to be nasty.
When your Mum or sis invite you to the party, just say not this time thanks, don't rant in detail about why, it'll just start up a big fight.

Hmm.

It does sound a bit Baby Jane if I'm honest.

I imagine niece thinks you're too involved in their lives and possibly a bit overbearing.

You sound as though you've painted your sister as a victim and you're her rescuer.

I would take a massive step back.

I don't think anyone is saying you haven't been a fantastic suster and aunt OP, it sounds as though you have been amazing. But sometimes it can be quite hard to receive. Maybe your dsis/dn are struggling a bit with self-respect.

To shift the relationship (after a bit of cooling off?)maybe you could ask them for advice sometimes - even just on trivia like should i get these shoes or whatever? (or something else to de-infantlise them IYSWIM)

De-infantlise themselves in their own eyes, that is

Maybe instead of saying something you should just cry when it happens. That might make them realise how upsetting the situation is and could be a wake up call.