To want to talk to my brother about his girlfriend?

[babyblabber]

I really need advice and apologies in advance, this will be long.

My brother is a lovely, shy, nerdy guy. He was bullied for years on school which we only found out about years later. He has been with his girlfriend for over 6 years, living together for 4. Full disclosure, the entire family find her annoying but that i can live with so long as she treats him well and make him happy and we have never been rude or let him know how we feel.

my issue is, she seems to have this pattern of getting hugely offended/digging her heels in at minor things and it is affecting him. she is very stubborn and convinces herself she is totally in the right and is fighting the good fight. i'm wondering if he is in for a lifetime of drama, feuds with neighbours, schools, anyone who looks at her sideways (which would really stress him out) and whether i should talk to him about maybe standing up to her if he wants to. but i don't want to butt in to their relationship. but i also want him to know it's ok for him to ask advice from his friends/family and not disloyal to her because i'm pretty sure he doesn't talk to anyone and she just rules the roost.

some examples of what i'm talking about to help explain:

• they were away for a weekend and got caught on public transport with the wrong ticket. instead of paying the fine and get on with their holiday she refused, saying they were tourists and it wasn't their fault. they were taken to the police station, there for 3 hours, passport details taken etc and are now afraid to return to the country in question ever again. she told me my brother chewed his nails right down till they bled while they were there. i know he would have been so stressed out. I would have loved for him to just insist they/he pay the fine as i know this is what he would have wanted to do.

• she can't drive and insists she doesn't have time to learn (she's a teacher and has good holidays). she has been saying this for years. he drives her everywhere and has mentioned in the past that it really annoys him that she won't even try to learn.

• they are house hunting they are looking only at brand new houses and she is refusing to even view anything else. Where we live there are very few new houses but loads of great houses in good condition, or houses that needs a lick of paint etc but she won't even consider them. they are looking at houses in a real miles away from work, family, friends etc and, she has said she doesn't care about location so long as the house is brand new. when i asked what did he want in a house she cut him off and said "he doesn't have any criteria". she also said "it's my house so i will decide" and then backtracked and said "well it's [brother]'s house too but i will be there all the time when we have kids". apart from anything else, financially he will be contributing the entire deposit (about 1/4 of the value of the house) and it sounds like he will be paying the mortgage too if she is going to quit work when they have kids. he is a very sensible person and i'd be shocked if he didn't want to make sure the house was a sound investment as well as a good home for them. I feel he is literally not allowed to have an opinion which is mental.

• the latest and what has me writing this because i'm so upset for him is they are invited to a wedding soon, the bride is a friend of his. Girlfriend booked a room in the hotel. bride rearranged the rooms so that family had the hotel rooms and other guests were in an adjoining lodge. Girlfriend found out and made my brother email the bride (he would never in a million years have done that without being made to) and tell her they didn't want to stay in the lodge and she also rang the hotel and went crazy at them for changing her room without telling her. Bride was very apologetic about the whole thing. Girlfriend is now refusing to attend the wedding. My brother is still going thank god. and it's on his 30th birthday. She asked my opinion and i said it was annoying re the rooms but she is being unreasonable and they will think she is a b!tch. she said "i don't care". i asked did she not care for my brother's sake as all his friends will be there and she said "no i don't care, I'm raging at the bride, no way am i going". my brother was again biting his nails away while this conversation took place.

i could go on with more examples along a similar vein but you get the idea.

i don't want to tell him to break up with her or anything but i want to make sure he knows it's ok to stand up to her and in fact, at times maybe he should, if she is being unreasonable. or that he can ask advice if he needs to. she has this pattern of creating a mountain out of a molehill and i am genuinely concerned that sooner or later one of our family will be on the receiving end and i can fully imagine her insisting he cut off contact. she has done this with friends in the past. i actually worry that when they have kids, me or my sister or my parents might not be allowed to see them if we say or do something to offend her. i have an opportunity to have a chat to him this week and she would never have to know we even saw each other.

should i do it or should i just mind my own business? what would i even say to him?

"Were there no fresh ones available?"

She sounds like hard work, OP, but I'd keep quiet. Just make sure your DB knows you're always there for him if he wants to talk... and I'm sure he will...

She definitely sounds highly strung and 'hard work', but I personally wouldn't interfere unless you think your brother is actually being abused in any way (I didn't think what you described in the OP sounded abusive. I hope I didn't miss anything).

I have seen a few times where families have taken an instant dislike to gfs (funny that it's rarely bfs IME) of their son / brother. The son / brother then gets stuck having to 'choose a side' so to speak and they almost always side with their gf. It's one of the quickest ways to put distance between yourself and your son / brother imho. I made a huge effort to get on well with my brother's gf when I met her, despite my mum and sister all disliking her. They are now happily married with DCs so I'm really glad I made the effort so that we have a genuinely good relationship now.

Fwiw, though I wouldn't have done what your brother's gf did, I do find what the the bride did re rooms very rude. Maybe your brother's gf feels like she is sticking up for him somehow if he doesn't tend to stand up for himself. She should have been more gracious of course.

I do wonder about MN sometimes.

I wonder if the SIL posted on here what would be said to her?

She wants to live in a new build, other people are sticking their nose in and telling her she should look for something else.

Her ILs have the attitude that if she becomes a SAHM then the home won't be her house.

DHs friend has made her feel like she is unwelcome at a wedding by moving her room as far away as they can get it. ILs are encouraging DP to prioritise an unkind friend above her.

I'm sure if she posted that he'd be called a doormat for not standing up to his unwelcoming friends and family. He supports his partner and he's a doormat for not giving her what for.

But if she posted that her DP was putting his foot down and saying she had to go to the wedding or not be a SAHM or live in an old house he'd be controlling and she'd be told to LTB.

Oooof, I agree, she sounds hard work. It sounds almost as though she has pathological issues with people telling her what to do. And by 'pathological', I mean that there may be all kinds of things in her past that might explain why she kicks so very hard at authority and at anyone trying to fill the role of an advisor.

I agree with PPs that precisely because of this, you really risk causing a much larger problem if you intervene in any explicit way here. Any action in that direction is likely to be interpreted very negatively, as an attempt to undermine her. Your brother is a grown man, and is old enough to make up his own mind about what is or isn't acceptable. No-one outside of a relationship ever really knows the 'true' story of the dynamics between the couple, or of an incoming partner's history, and it's worth bearing that strongly in mind.

I'm the recipient of endless, unwanted and unsolicited advice from my inlaws. Please, please DON'T give advice unless you are explicitly asked. Listen, create space that is understanding and that aims to hear what is being really said, rather than telling people what to do. Different people and different families have different ways of doing things, and sometimes there are reasons for this that aren't clear on the surface. Creating space for everyone to be a full person, where their differences are accepted, is pretty key to long-term good relationships. My guess is that if she feels more accepted and less challenged, she may calm down a little and become more personable.

He's a wimp?! I'm sorry, what? Would you be saying that if her brother was a sister and was being bullied by her boyfriend?

i am genuinely concerned that sooner or later one of our family will be on the receiving end

You're right to be concerned, it's very likely that she will. It's a classic escalation.

OP, my brother was abused physically and emotionally by his girlfriend for eight years. She literally beat him into submission, took his bank cards away and cut him off from his family. The only thing you can do is be there for him and let him know you have his back no matter what. He will only leave when he's ready, and it doesn't sound as though he is. But you being there and him knowing he has you will help.

Loving the delicious irony of a strong willed woman wanting to tell her brother that he really shouldn't be with a strong willed woman. 😄

It is his life, he is an adult, maybe he likes being treated that way, maybe you only see half the story. I'm assuming he isn't a total idiot who can't see what is going on.

Unless you suspect he is in an abusive relationship, then I'd suggest you hold your counsel and just be there for him if it all goes wrong.

Don't say anything. No good will come of it.

Presumably he loves her. They are planning a future together.

Don't put him in a position of having to choose between his partner and his family of origin. He will choose her. If I were put in that position, I know I would choose my partner.

mavis that's absolutely awful. I'm so sorry to read that. Your poor brother! It shouldn't have to be said that bullying and abuse to a man by a woman is just as abhorrent as abuse of a woman by a man.

I don't think this relationship sounds abusive from what I've read though... have I missed it? The house thing does sound a little "my way or the highway", but I can see why she wouldn't bend over backwards to stay living near a family who have "always found her annoying".

It was horrendous to witness Antonella. No I agree, it doesn't sound abusive, but it does sound unbalanced and as though he's being bullied somewhat... Any sign of this with the genders reversed would have most families scrambling for an action plan before it got to the abusive stage.

I don't think calling him a wimp is helpful at all, I'm actually quite shocked I've read that, to be honest!

I would take the conversation as it comes. Establish the length of his nails.
But don't push him into saying stuff and only volunteer the most gentle of opinions that can't come back to haunt you if asked.

How are you?
Are you ok - you seem really stressed lately? [Denial can be met with gently pointing out his habit of nailbiting under stress]
How is the house-hunting going? Opportunity to say "I don't understand why GF wants to live in X if she can't drive? She'll be totally stranded and v isolated if you have a family? She'll have to get one of those dutch bicycles "

The bride changing the booking is damn rude imo. Grandstanding over it and refusing to go is a bit OTT though. Good on your brother for going by himself - support him in that as she's bound to make it a huge issue for him. If he's lucky the GF will flounce over it.

I agree it doesn't sound that bad and also think it's no coincidence that they're a couple - not only might he prefer her to take the lead in some ways, he might also be hard work himself, with his v passive approach. So the fact that they've found each other, love each other, and seem to be making a go of things is promising, whether you approve of all her/their decisions or not. If what she was doing was much worse, then fair enough, but these really fall into the none of your business/couples' own checks and balances bracket. She may well not have the highest opinion of you, so I'd be wary of making him choose his loyalties.

I suspect he knows better than anyone what's she's like

It's really tricky. I have a similar situation with my brother and have never said anything eve when it's impacted my parents. I've gone out of my way to be supportive of both of them and especially of my brother. Just occasionally he comes to me for some advice and a moan. I don't bitch about her but I'm sympathetic to him IYSWIM . I just need to be there for him if he ever needs it.

Unless you see anything that indicates that he is being abused by his partner - and I don't see this in your post - I don't think you have the slightest grounds to say anything. From what you say, he sounds like the kind of gentle, passive person who takes on the colouring of whoever s/he's in a relationship with - isn't it perfectly possible he relishes in her the precise qualities of confidence, stubbornness, knowing what she wants, a reluctance to back down, and a perfect readiness to intervene in a situation to get her way that you dislike?

I'm slightly wary of someone who says blithely 'the entire family find her annoying', because it sounds as if you and your siblings and parents sit around gathering further evidence for why she's so dislikeable and bad for your brother?

Most people - abusive dynamics aside, obviously - generally do what they want to do. In the absence of any evidence that he is unhappy/coerced in the relationship, there seems no reason to assume that he's anything other than content with the situation. Again, outside of an abusive situation, no one can 'make' anyone do anything. He chose to email the bride, for instance. He chose not to pay the fine.

Are you a family who live in one another's pockets? Because you seem to know an awful lot about their housing finances etc.

And why the secrecy about seeing him this week? Do you honestly think that if his partner knows he saw you by himself, she would assume his evil family were advising him against her?

UABU
Seems you are so concerned with your brother not being upset/biting his nails etc.Hes a grown up and has to deal with grown up situations,sometimes stressful.
I wouldn't want to pay the fine for genuine mistake...
I wouldn't want hotel booked changed without my knowledge
I would want to have a dream house and if her dream house is new build then so be it. If she wants to live far away from you is possible,I think she's allowed too. And if he goes along with it then fine,let them!
Seems like their couple is more traditional type when man provides and pays for most of things. Wouldn't you be pleased if your sister had a partner willing to provide /taking responsibility?
Support your brother IF and only if he asks for help/advice

Hmm, you sounded so nice and caring in your OP and then in your last paragraph it suddenly became apparent that the real concern is how all this might impact on you. You're full of criticisms of her, but terrified of the potential impact on you if she decides she's not so impressed with you either. I think you should butt out tbh. So she's a bit bolshy and apparently wears the trousers in their relationship. If they've been together for 6 years and lived together 4, my guess is that's how he likes it. (Perhaps he's comfortable with bolshy women because he grew up with them?) Like BillSykes upthread, I can see it all from the other side only too well. And yes, rude of the bride. I can see the other side of that too. Probably on a Mumsnet thread.